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Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

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Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#61

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

derefr wrote: post #58
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #15

I was pleased to see that Hallow earned their seal of approval, or should I say it evaded their badge of shame? Hallow's a good app, professionally developed, and it's marketed tirelessly. I had my friend asking me if it was a good app to install. I don't know; I use other ones but not Hallow. I was also pleased to see that "BetterHelp" earned the badge of shame. BetterHelp is just on this side of an outright scam. T…

> If you're thinking of using "BetterHelp" or one of its analogs, please instead consider [...a bunch of stuff that someone with an executive dysfunction could never manage to do]

If somebody's executive dysfunction is preventing them from going through the basic steps needed to get help for that very thing, then they seriously need to enlist the help of either a family member or a professional who can walk them through this and ensure that they succeed.

I'm not sure what the implication of this comment was, but hopefully it does not imply that "if my executive dysfunction prevents me from seeing a real professional then I'll press buttons on my phone and see a fake one instead", because that's a horrible life choice. Complete inaction would be significantly less harmful in a case like that.

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#62

Post by derefr »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #61
derefr wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're thinking of using "BetterHelp" or one of its analogs, please instead consider [...a bunch of stuff that someone with an executive dysfunction could never manage to do]

If somebody's executive dysfunction is preventing them from going through the basic steps needed to get help for that very thing, then they seriously need to enlist the help of either a family member or a professional who can walk them through this and ensure that they succeed. I'm not sure what the implication of this comment was, but hopefully it does not imply that "if my executive dysfunction prevents me from see…

> If somebody's executive dysfunction is preventing them from going through the basic steps needed to get help for that very thing, then they seriously need to enlist the help of either a family member or a professional who can walk them through this and ensure that they succeed.

You just said the same thing over again. How do you expect them to "enlist the help of a professional"? That's the whole (complex, multi-step) goal they're pursuing here!

(And, for many such people, they have no supportive family members. They live on their own, do the bare minimum each day at work, drag themselves home, microwave a TV dinner, and fall asleep. Think of them as "a car that doesn't have enough gas in the tank to drive to a gas station.")

> I'm not sure what the implication of this comment was

That lowering the barriers (and thus amount of willpower required) to get yourself initially introduced to someone who can help you with your problems even a little — even if they're not going to be able to help you really well with your problems — is valuable, because being helped even a little now means you have more willpower, that you can then use to access a higher-barrier-to-entry solution, and so on, in a cycle, incrementally bootstrapping your way to fully addressing your problem.

For an analogous situation: group therapy for gender dysphoria is hard to access. Web forums full of trans people you can talk to are easy to access. Those forums aren't structured to help you in the way that group therapy is, but it can at least help you overcome a crisis about whether you should acknowledge that you have a need that requires addressing in the first place.

Whether or not any particular approach or service that lowers barriers to accessing help, is good at doing that, should not be used to condemn the act of lowering barriers to accessing help itself. Just because BetterHelp is worse than nothing, doesn't mean that we should accept "nothing"; the barriers-to-access are still a problem to be solved, and we should still encourage people and companies who set out to try to solve it.

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#63

Post by villagevanguard »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #32
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One very, very basic measurement / thought experiment for holiness in Christian circles to think about is the following: Imagine Christianity is illegal. Imagine the government decides to prosecute you, but hires the weakest, most incompetent, repeatedly-almost-disbarred prosecutor there is. You meanwhile get access to David Boies. Would the government have enough evidence for even the worst prosecutor to prove you a…

[flagged]

Ironically, you're being gratuitously hostile in your accusation that they are not actually persecuted.

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#64

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

villagevanguard wrote: post #63
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ironically, you're being gratuitously hostile in your accusation that they are not actually persecuted.

I live in the southern U.S. so, no they're not being persecuted here. They still like to act like it though. It's annoying.

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#65

Post by hospitalJail »

chrisallenlane wrote: post #50
hospitalJail wrote: post #8

iOS or Android, both get your data. What is the difference in privacy? Please use actual examples and not boogeymen 'Google is an ad company'. I personally have seen iphones(or at least iphone users) have far more intrusive and customized ads to the point where saying a word in a home puts you at risk of getting physical mail related to that word. (It was dog food, and a dog food ad.) I've come to the conclusion that…

FWIW, I don't have any pets (and haven't for some time), but I receive physical mail regarding dog food, dog toys, etc, all the time. There's a chance you've been fooled by randomness here. That said, there's certainly no harm in treating your device as compromised. I do the same. "Better safe than sorry."

Well, the specific name of the company that was mentioned showed up, and us getting 0 dog related stuff prior, and 0 dog stuff since, makes it sus.

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#66

Post by xctr94 »

adamwong246 wrote: post #53

I hate to be the one who has to say the quiet part out loud but- what in the world are we doing to ourselves? Were these apps FOSS I might not be so alarmed but how do you think these companies are paying the bills? With good karma? No, YOUR DATA. And not just your GPS location or your favorite brand of ice cream, but your most vulnerable and intimate of thoughts. Now, shudder at the thought that not only can these a…

You’re sadly right, but many of these apps have a freemium model.

BetterHelp isn’t free at all, it’s actually fairly expensive; so one could argue they should not need to phone in your data to so many third-parties.

I pay my therapist for their services, assuming there’s a high degree of confidentiality in our relationship. These apps, even paid ones, behave like any other app in terms of data sharing.

And not to mention that some of this information might be covered by HIPAA?

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#67

Post by xctr94 »

adamwong246 wrote: post #57
anotheraccount9 wrote: post #55

This is concerning. I'm using one of these services and if my mental health details were to be known, I would not only feel devastated, but this would negatively impact my career and social life (for a long time?). I need to know I can trust these folks, but what are other options? I can't find any psychologists or psychotherapists in my area who are available (many don't even answer my calls or emails). Do you know…

I believe that this problem is one of sheer personal responsibility. That is, I don't really trust therapists much more than these apps. Support groups and self-help books are better but in the end, only pure "shadow work" can really save you. You must learn to be your own therapist.

As someone that did shadow work, this is disingenuous and unhelpful. People undergoing depression or PTSD can’t be told to “man up” and work on themselves alone. Therapists are usually very careful with confidentiality.

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#68

Post by P_I_Staker »

3pt14159 wrote: post #29
hospitalJail wrote: post #5

>Mozilla’s Minimum Security Standards, like requiring strong passwords What if I don't want a strong password? What if I have 0 care for my account because I never wanted an account to being with but was strong armed into giving away my email, phone number, and now need a unique password because I'm worried someone is going to see that I 'prayed' 100 times. I loved that reddit didn't need an email, and I could use a…

Why do I need a password at all for 99.99% of apps or websites? If I lose a password, what do I almost always have to do? 1. Email account recovery link. 2. Input auth code sent from text message or authenticator app. [Optional.] 3. Make new random password I'm going to forget or lose. Why bother with this? If email is the reset mechanism why does the industry care so much about getting passwords from users? 1. Email…

I think they do this in Europe. I believe that there is still loss of some security. With email only you could loss all your accounts.

So, while I mostly agree overall, especially with respect to silly little things that aren't likely to hurt anyone, I do think there's a compelling case for password and 2factor.

As it stands, you have to know something and have something. Making it so you only need to have something is better than making it so they only know something.

However, that second factor seems like a good idea; though I will admit that it's probably unlikely that a thief would have the motivation to crack your phone to get your email; is this even easily achievable?

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#69

Post by ebiester »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #47
JohnMakin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're not wrong, in many many states in the US, if not a majority of them, finding a therapist that is both a) covered by your insurance and b) accepting new patients can be extraordinarily difficult if not impossible. At the same time, demand for mental health care is steadily rising. That's why these apps do so well.

I've found that some of the best therapists don't accept any insurance at all, and it'd be foolish to limit one's choices to therapists who are covered by conventional health insurance. One very good choice in my area is Catholic Charities. They have licensed counselors as well as students under supervision, and they charge a mere $35 per session. This is a great choice for those who are uninsured or have trouble get…

So long as you’re not LGBT, or considering an abortion, or any number of things that run afoul of the Catholics.

Re: Top Mental Health and Prayer Apps Fail at Privacy, Security (2022)

#70

Post by robertlagrant »

bell-cot wrote: post #36
robertlagrant wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all benefit from those warnings. Who isn't taught to not stick their fingers in light sockets?

A human can be old enough that hearing reminders about computer data generally consisting of 0's and 1's, or that spare diapers are handy when an infant is around, or the 'R' on the gearshift lever standing for 'Reverse', or {etc.} ...may no longer be a good use of the old human's time.

I'm sure the old human will have also learned that the world's general warnings and advice can't be individually tailored to what the old human happens to know or not know.
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