Live data from Hacker News

Text Editor Data Structures

cdacamar.github.io

61–70 of 81 posts

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#61

> if the underlying buffer needs to reallocate after some edits the entire process slows to a crawl as you need to allocate a larger buffer and copy each byte into the new buffer and destroy the old one. It can turn an O(n) operation into O(n^2) randomly. This would still only be a O(n) operation. The constant value might be higher, but the complexity is the same. I don’t buy the argument that gap buffers “are bad fo…

These data structures are not mutually exclusive, see the paper by Crowley linked elsewhere in the discussion. You could use, e.g., a piece table with a gap buffer for descriptors, or a piece table with a tree for descriptors.

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#62
Another potential approach is to use a traditional rope as-is, and generate a series of reverse operational transforms everytime there is an edit. Run a "compacting operation" every n edits to keep the stack of ops from growing out of hand.

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#63
I feel like the rope was too quickly discarded here. The author stopped exploring ropes because they don't fit criteria 2--efficient undo/redo. There are a few problems with claiming that ropes aren't efficient for this usage:

1. The claim that the rope is inefficient for undo/redo is based on a singular example of a small edit on short strings. This isn't where ropes shine, admittedly, but they don't need to shine there, because when dealing with such small pieces of data, pretty much anything you do will be faster than the user can see. If using larger strings, the space allocated for nodes becomes background noise as the strings themselves dominate the size.

2. The chosen solution, the piece table, is more memory-efficient than the rope at first glance, but that's a surface-level efficiency. The eventually-chosen solution, a piece tree, is far less memory efficient. Sure, at first glance it is more memory-efficient, but this is at the expense of tree traversals, which in the VSCode article, are addressed with cache, which... uses more memory. In the author's implementation there's even more memory used because there's a requirement he didn't include in his list: he wants it all to be immutable. Nevermind that ropes were immutable from the start...

3. If you have a document which uses a lot (read, thousands) of very small edits, then the size of small strings might start to matter. So if you're going to optimize for this, optimize it. There are some fairly small optimizations that make the inefficiency concerns completely irrelevant. One is pointer packing: in a 64-bit system, pointers are 64 bits, but in practice, the vast majority of systems use 48 or fewer of those bits: as it turns out, there aren't many systems with more than 2^48 bytes = 256 terabytes of RAM. This means the leading 16 bits are 0s. Trivially, this means you can store strings of 7 8-bit characters in the pointer itself, using the first 8 bits to signal if it's a string or pointer (if they're all 0s, it's a pointer) and the length of the string. All the strings in the inefficiency example can fit in a 64 bit integer: "Hello", " ", and "world" are all fewer than 7 bytes, which means you're passing around 64-bit integers, by value, with no allocations necessary. In fact, this means you can either append the " " to "Hello" like "Hello ", or prepend it to "world" like " world", and still stay under 7 bytes in either case. Remember, this is now 64 bit integers being passed around by value: this is far faster than piece trees.

4. The author treats undo/redo as a stack, but all the cool editors treat it as a tree. If you make a change, then undo it, then make another change, then undo the second change, is your first change lost? In vim/emacs, the answer is no: you can go back into a tree and find it to reapply. This means that all text is not only immutable but immortal: it has to be kept for the duration of the editing session. This enables a few more optimizations: we no longer need reference counts or garbage collection since we aren't reclaiming the memory, and now we can point into existing strings since they'll never change. Consider the following string: "The quick brown box jumps over the lazy dog." You may have noticed a typo: "box" should be "fox". This change requires 0 buffer allocations: we have a pointer to "The quick brown box jumps over the lazy dog." for the original string, a pointer to the same spot for "The quick brown " (with a length), a second pointer to "ox jumps over the lazy dog.", and a packed pointer (integer) for the string "f". This is pretty key because if you're not freeing any of this memory, you need to make sure you don't allocate more than necessary!

NOTE: I'm not saying that the rope is the better structure here. There may be more requirements which weren't captured in the article which mean that piece buffers really are the right answer. All I'm saying is that the article doesn't really explore ropes deeply enough to write them off so quickly.

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#64

I've been wondering if there's a good algorithm to handle highlights in a piece of text. If I highlight some text, lets say the part between the => "Idioteque" is a song => by the English rock band Radiohead If I want to then edit this text, is there an efficient algorithm for figuring out the start and end index of the highlight for the edited text?

There's way too little detail given in this question for you to get a useful answer. How is the text stored? How are you highlighting if you don't have the indices?

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do miss the 'select and execute', and 'everything is a shell' model of MPW. Definitely one of my favorite development environments.

elsewhere on HN today is a short article on BBedit, which has a really nice shell worksheet interface similar to the old MPW. Select the text you want to execute, hit control-return, and the shell output will appear below the selected text.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe this feature originates with Smalltalk (you might think that Smalltalk is a language and the feature in question is an editor feature, but most Smalltalk variants are tightly integrated with an editing environment).

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#66

Can someone point me to structures/algorithms to use for text editor which could support files of unlimited lengths (including lines of unlimited length) without loading those fully in the buffer? I miss that editor so much, that I'm considering to write one some day, but I have no idea how to do so. I can invent things myself, but I guess those things were invented already back in the days computers were different.

You might be interested in ewig and immer by Juan Pedro Bolivar Puente:

https://github.com/arximboldi/ewig

https://github.com/arximboldi/immer

See the author instantly opening a ~1GB text file with async loading, paging through, copying/pasting, and undoing/redoing in their prototype “ewig” text editor about 27 minutes into their talk here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sPhpelUfu8Q

It’s backed by a “vector of vectors” data structure called a relaxed radix balanced tree:

https://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/169879/files/RMTrees.pdf

That original paper has seen lots of attention and attempts at performance improvements, such as:

https://hypirion.com/musings/thesis

https://github.com/hyPiRion/c-rrb

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#67

There are tons of articles about plain text editor data structures, but what about rich text editor data structures? Let's say i want to implement a text editor that can have bold, italic, underline, etc text but also be able to do automatic word breaking, align paragraph text to left/middle/right, insert images and/or other objects, have floating images and/or other objects around which the other (non floating) text…

You can always check Qt TextEdit source code ;)

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#68
post #33

This seems revisionist/ignorant. The article attributes a "piece tree" data structure to VS Code developers, however the must-read 1998 paper by Charles Crowley, Data Structures for Text Sequences , already mentions search trees as being used to enhance the naive piece table in some text editors. https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.48...

Thank you for the pointer! I was actually not aware of this paper at all, which is why it was not included here (not sure how I missed it). I'll be sure to push a revision to the blog which mentions this paper.

I might have a useful suggestion. I've implemented a Piece Tree (VS Code style) and a Rope in a functional language (found the Rope much faster at everything but I made a few adjustments to the structure so it's not a straightforward Rope).

The major failing point of the Piece Tree from my benchmarks is the substring/querying time. An idea I want to try out to speed up my Piece Tree implementation is to distinguish between Concat (metadata) and Leaf (string) nodes, just as a Rope does, storing metadata in the internal nodes and Pieces at the leaves.

The reason (I hope) that will improve substring times is because, in a Piece Tree, the original string can be reconstructed through an in-order traversal of the tree's internal nodes.

So, if you specify a substring range that starts from one character before the root node and ends one character after the root node, you end up traversing to the rightmost node in the left subtree and the leftmost node in the right subtree (two O(log n) operations).

I'm hopeful the tree depth that would need to be traversed if the nodes were at the Leaves (like in a Rope) would be shorter (especially since adjacent pieces won't be O(log n) distance away) and want to try it out myself, but my intuition might be wrong. You can have a go trying that out yourself if the idea interests you.

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#69

There are tons of articles about plain text editor data structures, but what about rich text editor data structures? Let's say i want to implement a text editor that can have bold, italic, underline, etc text but also be able to do automatic word breaking, align paragraph text to left/middle/right, insert images and/or other objects, have floating images and/or other objects around which the other (non floating) text…

I am pretty sure that Write for Win3.1 used the Rich Edit control, or an early, non-public pre-cursor.

Here are the Win32 docs: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/controls/ric...

The more I read about this control, the more I learn about its insane feature set! Microsoft continues to make significant improvements to a version that is only shipped with Microsoft Office -- not available from a barebones Win7/10/11 install. Read more here: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/math-in-office/using-richedit...

Rich Edit control also supports the Text Object Model, which is very powerful. Read more here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/tom/nn-t...

Re: Text Editor Data Structures

#70
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emojis with skin color, mostly

No, that's a ZWJ sequence. Those can be arbitrarily long. Doesn't explain where "5 bytes" comes from.

Is there a maximum number of "zero-width joiner" (ZWJ) sequences that can be combined to create a single-width emoji? (Yes, I know the term "single-width" is a loaded term.) I cannot find a precise answer.
Post reply on HN