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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#61

Post by zaroth »

ajross wrote: post #44
oblio wrote: post #2

"Slow and steady" better than "move fast and break things"? :-)

Define better? A Tesla will do exactly the same thing[1] and just nag you every few minutes to tug on the steering wheel (those nags are getting rarer every release as the driver monitoring camera improves, FWIW). The Mercedes driver can have their hands doing other things, but still needs their eyes out of the cockpit because the second traffic speeds up to 40mph they need to take over. In practice, this is "Level 3…

People forget the status quo is millions of deaths and trillions in property and economic damages. Moving slow condemns millions more to die.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#62

Post by simondotau »

dmbche wrote: post #56
simondotau wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your contribution but I disagree that it’s any more “meta” to respond to the community’s unwritten reactions (votes) than responding to its written reactions (normal replies).

Oh I was refering to your comment on the editorialisation of the title, since it's not a comment on the subject of the article but on the writing of it's title. Not a dig, just an observation.

Oh, I misunderstood. Still, I’d argue that in a world where most people who eyeball the headline don’t read the article, the headline is the story. And thus discussing whether the headline leaves a misleading impression is fair game — and not at all meta.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#63

Post by elif »

radomir_cernoch wrote: post #45
throwaway_ab wrote: post #31

Many people are saying Tesla FSD is far more advanced, and I've seen videos of A Tesla driving around LA for 2 hours completely autonomously so I agree Tesla FSD is the world leader by far and blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. However Mercedes are taking liability whilst their system is in use which implies Tesla takes no liability whilst their system is in use. I'm surprised Tesla is scared to take leg…

> [...] blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. Mercedes FSD prototype, 10 years ago: https://youtu.be/G5kJ_8JAp-w

In that video they mention doing localization based upon a prebuilt map of the route by matching images to the model 10 times per second.

That is by definition, not FSD. That is like the system announced today, a limited route autonomy.

For comparison, FSD v3 (they are shipping v4 in every vehicle now) performs localization 2,000 times per second based upon a hybrid model of every road in open street maps and a generalized model of roads. That is why it is FULL. Even if you are on an unmapped brand new road built yesterday, it will know how to drive appropriately.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#64

Post by carlmr »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #52
pyinstallwoes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you use LiDAR when you drive?

No, but at the same time Boeings and Airbuses don't flap their wings and birds don't use jet engines to fly. Just because nature and millions of years of evolution have solved a problem in a way that looks simple on the surface, doesn't mean the same thing can be copied with current tech to solve the same problem. Elon's "but humans drive with only use two eyes therefore we can do it with cameras" is the most moronic…

It's moronic because it's motivated reasoning.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#65

Post by zaroth »

dmbche wrote: post #30
porphyra wrote: post #3

... only when driving under 40 mph on highways. So it is pretty useless. The main thing is that Mercedes Benz will take liability for anything that goes wrong. But the system as a whole is far less capable than Tesla FSD.

That's all enforced by the government, it's not a limitation of the system. They might be comfortable with liability for more than this but are not allowed to by regulators - which is wise

It literally is a “limitation of the system”.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#66

Post by simondotau »

justapassenger wrote: post #60
simondotau wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of that is technically correct but isn’t the point the OP was making. These are products with wildly different aspirations and at different stages of achieving those aspirations.

Yes. One product works and other doesn’t. And one that doesn’t work is better and for sure will improve and work in the future? And one that does work won’t improve?

I don’t know who you’re replying to, because that’s certainly nothing to do with what I said.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#67

Post by akmarinov »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

In the end, Mercedes assumes liability for its system, where Tesla doesn’t. Tells you all you need to know.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#68

Post by akmarinov »

elif wrote: post #63
radomir_cernoch wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. Mercedes FSD prototype, 10 years ago: https://youtu.be/G5kJ_8JAp-w

In that video they mention doing localization based upon a prebuilt map of the route by matching images to the model 10 times per second. That is by definition, not FSD. That is like the system announced today, a limited route autonomy. For comparison, FSD v3 (they are shipping v4 in every vehicle now) performs localization 2,000 times per second based upon a hybrid model of every road in open street maps and a gener…

They aren’t shipping v4 in the model 3, so no on the “every vehicle”

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#69

Post by MattRix »

radomir_cernoch wrote: post #45
throwaway_ab wrote: post #31

Many people are saying Tesla FSD is far more advanced, and I've seen videos of A Tesla driving around LA for 2 hours completely autonomously so I agree Tesla FSD is the world leader by far and blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. However Mercedes are taking liability whilst their system is in use which implies Tesla takes no liability whilst their system is in use. I'm surprised Tesla is scared to take leg…

> [...] blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. Mercedes FSD prototype, 10 years ago: https://youtu.be/G5kJ_8JAp-w

Yeah that’s nowhere close. It’s easy to make a prototype that looks good in a marketing video while driving a very tightly mapped route. It’s a whole other thing to let anyone use self driving tech anywhere, especially on routes it has never seen before.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#70

Post by elif »

justapassenger wrote: post #53
elif wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think Mercedes legal filings guarantee a safer system? It is more important to focus on the technical capabilities of the systems than who can add more asterisks to their crash statistics. You are comparing a mature system with billions of miles of testing to a system which you will struggle to keep engaged for 2 mile intervals.

Ok, let’s focus on the technical aspects. Tesla has no safety life cycle process and as a result FSD is inherently unsafe, from the engineering point of view. You can try to hand wave over that, but if you are an engineer working on the safety critical systems (it’s an actual engineering field), that’s all you need to know about FSD.

How will you discretely identify every problem to be solved in the domain of live real drivers in real world conditions? Applying a model of an industrial plant where machines interface with machines, and occasionally humans in prescribed and orderly functions, will not get you any closer to safety.

What will get you closer to safety is insanely large corpus of real world data being trained on in a continuous feedback loop.

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