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240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

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Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#61

Post by kitsunesoba »

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk.

It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably nicer experience than with barrel jacks, with the various different sizes and pole configurations they can come in and their "dumb" nature all of which makes it easy to plug in a brick that physically fits but fries your device.

It'd also enable better modularity, making it easier to replace the bargain bin bricks that come with some devices with something higher quality.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#62

Post by lloeki »

zbrozek wrote: post #43
nrp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s designed around 48V and 5A. Higher voltages introduce additional risks around arcing and also get you into different safety regulations and requirements. Above 5A also starts to make cable and connector design difficult for a small connector like USB-C.

Last time I looked at the comms protocol, it seemed possible to request up to 10 amps. I'm not sure there's a physical spec for a matching cable, but there's also no way for a cable to communicate its current limitations.

Nothing prevents anyone to use the USB-PD protocol over a different cable and plug (and maybe some do but we don't know it) rated for 10A. It's just so much more practical both for users and when designing to just use off the shelf USB-C (which AIUI has its design rated for 5A) as the physical part.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#63

Post by soulbadguy »

Springtime wrote: post #28

Will be interested to see if AllThingsOnePlace reviews it, as have been following their particularly in-depth power adapter reviews and their last review[1] of a Framework charger (a 60W model) showed it performed well both in efficiency and other metrics though not the highest performer or value in its wattage range. Wouldn't ordinarily mention a Youtube channel on HN but felt their detailed testing, comparisons and…

Seconds the recommendation of AllThingsOnePlace as great place to learn about usb psu in general. But watching his video I can't help but wonder with all the talk about the important of energy at the national level, why this kind of analysis is not done by one of gov. Agencies ...

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#64

Post by jaywalk »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

USB-PD requires extra circuitry that barrel jacks don't. I doubt we'll see the end of barrel jacks.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#65

Post by spookthesunset »

rektide wrote: post #31
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't airplane outlets just limit how much watts come out? I'm not an electrical engineer, I don't know much about these things, but I'd assume they have protection built-in to just cap out instead of blow a fuse if something draws too much power.

That's not really how electricity works. Wall power is a stable supply. 120v going up & down in a sine wave. If someone is drawing 120w - 1 amp - your only control as a power source is to try to lower the voltage (voltage potential). Problem one: that will go out of spec with what devices expect, if you try to provide 80 vac instead. Problem two: switch mode power supplies that can handle sagged voltages will just tr…

To be ultra pedantic, 120VAC refers to the root mean square (RMS) voltage of the sinusoidal waveform present in household electrical systems. The RMS value represents the effective voltage that produces the same amount of power as a DC voltage of the same value. In the case of a 120VAC circuit, the peak voltage, which represents the maximum value of the voltage waveform, is approximately 169.7 volts. This peak voltage is achieved when the voltage swings between +169.7V and -169.7V in a full sine wave pattern.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#66

Post by phil21 »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

It's already starting, I've noticed. I've gotten a few very random devices lately they would traditionally have been powered by a custom barrel jack, that are now USB-C instead. One was a cheap light up dog collar, and I've recently picked up a soldering iron with it.

I expect the trend to continue as it's likely cheaper to toss in a single USB-C port and controller chip than it is to supply a power brick. I can see most stuff shipping without an actual PSU very soon - I'd estimate 50% of devices already do so these days.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#67

Post by Orphis »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

Is it possible for a (laptop + USB-C PD power charger) to support multiple charging rates? My Lenovo Legion 5 has a 300W charger. Caveats: (a) I'm not sure if that's input power or output power; and (b) it's not a USB-C PD connector , but my question isn't specific to this laptop. Airplane A/C power outlets aren't willing to deliver that much power. And even if I was willing to slow-charge the laptop on an airplane o…

I have this laptop and I've charged it with USB-C PD at 90W on multiple occasions. What chargers have you tried?

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#68

Post by xxpor »

jaywalk wrote: post #64
kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

USB-PD requires extra circuitry that barrel jacks don't. I doubt we'll see the end of barrel jacks.

OTOH, a lot of things have stopped including transformers, so the tradeoff might be worth it for the manufacturers.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#69

Post by notjulianjaynes »

parineum wrote: post #30
awelxtr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that increasing voltage at those minuscule distances that usb-c opeates can cause electric arcs which is dangerous Increasing current on the other hand heats stuff up which... is also dangerous

USB-C solves the arcing problem in a similar way that CCS (EV chargers) does. It doesn't engage the high voltage pins until a low voltage pilot makes contact. I'm not sure exactly how USB solves that for disconnecting (CCS locks the connector in) but I imagine the pilot would disconnect first and that would kill the PD pins during disconnect.

It seems that 48 volt USB-C might still have some issues with sparking during disconnect.

There's likely a better source but here's some discussion on the topic I found.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/106d7vi/usbc_...

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#70

Post by mtoner23 »

jaywalk wrote: post #64
kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

USB-PD requires extra circuitry that barrel jacks don't. I doubt we'll see the end of barrel jacks.

maybe for the truly cheapest products, but USB-c PD chipset can be pretty cheap these days.
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