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"It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

theunderstatement.com

61–70 of 284 posts

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#61
A lot of people have picked at the "it won't charge through a 100-foot extension cord" statement. While I have no idea if this particular statement is true or not, it certainly wouldn't be unexpected behavior for a power management system.

Modern charging and power conversion systems are designed to operate under specific use cases. When the Tesla charger first sees line voltage, it likely does some quick testing to see what kind of supply it's hooked up to, for example by trying to take 15 Amps and monitoring the line voltage. If the voltage sags too much, then it might back off to 12 Amps; after that, it probably just shuts off. The reason is that all of the AC/DC conversion circuitry is designed to operate with maximum efficiency at a certain input power; if the system can't deliver that power, then it's just going to shut down and assume that there's something wrong with the line.

Note, this does not mean that the battery requires 1kW continuous power to stay charged. In plugged mode, the car will switch the charger on and off every few minutes (if it's at all like a laptop or phone) and draw down the battery ever so slightly in between. This is the most efficient way to operate, and is much better for the battery than constantly stuffing it with a trickle of current.

If you want to see this in action on a consumer electronics scale, try plugging your iPad into the USB extension port on an iMac keyboard -- it will kindly let you know that it's not charging, and it will happily sit there and run its battery down to the cut-off point while plugged in.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#62
post #20

[deleted]

This is based on a wrong premise, that 900 watts is needed to keep the thing from losing charge, derived from vague anecdotal evidence and not supported in any way by technical fundamentals. If it was true, the 85 kwhr battery pack would last less than 3 days when the car was unplugged.

The actual number is probably more than an order of magnitude smaller.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#64
If you leave a gasoline engine car unattended for a while, it becomes a brick, too -- you need to flush the fuel, replace the seals, etc. True, it takes more than 11 weeks, and you can usually put the transmission in neutral to tow it.

This is a big problem, though. If anyone has a spare Tesla and would like someone to take care of it, I'd be happy to keep your car garaged and energized, and will only drive it 200 miles a week. :)

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#65
While a lot of this accurate and something to consider, the author of this article fails to mention anything about Tesla's unique service/support model that they plan to roll out with the Model S. Tesla also mentions a "five-minute battery swap" available on their upcoming vehicles as well as "Tesla Rangers" that will come to your vehicle in the event that it dies. It seems to me like this is a small problem that the author is blowing out of proportion.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#66

Could this really not be prevented by a $10 microcontroller and a big-ass relay to just disconnect the battery if it reaches a certain discharge state? Even my iPhone can turn turtle to protect its battery when it gets too low. Also how much power does it take to keep the damn thing plugged in? The article indicates that a 100 foot extension cord isn't enough just to break even and the car discharges even when plugge…

Could this really not be prevented by a $10 microcontroller and a big-ass relay to just disconnect the battery if it reaches a certain discharge state? Not necessarily. This might help, but the battery will also have self-discharge, meaning that it can lose charge without being connected to any load at all. If you get the charge down low enough, and then wait long enough, then even a full disconnect from the system w…

You could add a $100 mobile phone, which auto-calls a service center. If 1% of cars get "bricked", that's $10,000 per car saved, not including intervention costs. Even with some false positives, it would be worth it. Of course, that cost is carried by Tesla, not the customer.

"The Tesla manager called me to warn that my car was in trouble" is a much better customer experience than "my Tesla broke down, and cost $40k to fix".

Cars used to have the same problems with oil changes. This got better, as customers were educated (at the cost of a lot of cooked engines), and cars were able to warn their owners, and run for longer without oil.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#68

Kind of crazy that for the price of just a new battery, you could get a lower class Audi or BMW. Really put the overall "electric" technology in perspective for me.

For $30k, you could get a new Nissan Leaf with ~100 mile range, comparable to the Roadster. For this reason, I don't think your comparison is apt.

But yes, $40k is a lot of money and there are many options--including electric drive.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#69
post #64

If you leave a gasoline engine car unattended for a while, it becomes a brick, too -- you need to flush the fuel, replace the seals, etc. True, it takes more than 11 weeks, and you can usually put the transmission in neutral to tow it. This is a big problem, though. If anyone has a spare Tesla and would like someone to take care of it, I'd be happy to keep your car garaged and energized, and will only drive it 200 mi…

Don't forget the battery, leave a 'normal' battery through a few months and it's dead. What happens to a normal car once all the fuel is drained? Coolant? Oil?

How did these design flaws make it out of engineering?!

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#70
post #58

Sure reads like a competitor isn't too pleased with their model s plans.

This article didn't sit well with me either. All the examples were completely anecdotal, came from an anonymous source (a "regional service manager"), and there are no citations. Footnote 1 references a "written Tesla report" but that's hardly a citation.

It may be that there is a real issue here, but I would like to see it corroborated by some actual evidence.

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