It does really feel like the cat is out of the bag that producers anywhere in the supply chain of housing and food realized they could do whatever they want and we can all suck wind. Every significant expense I have is up more than 40% in the past two years.
Competition is supposed to drive prices down to the equilibrium level. Why is it not happening? Are produces colluding to fix prices? Why new players are not entering the market to take advantage of higher prices?
Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
61–70 of 98 posts
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Housing has almost nothing to do with markets because Anglo countries run it by central planning. So they can't enter. Construction is pretty high where it's been allowed. As for food, it has fallen - eggs were high earlier this year and now aren't. This is mostly driven by gas prices and the occasional animal pandemic.
Housing is (almost) just as bad in rural areas, where there's plenty of land to build new houses. It's just supply and demand.
https://twitter.com/stuartbdonovan/status/166414741287168409...
Your new land has to be insurable, not in a fire/flood zone, get roads and utilities built out to it, and has to not already have local land-use busybodies zoning it R-1 or inventing brand new weird design requirements.
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#63Fake news. This is a measure of where inflation "goes", not what fuels inflation. The narrative that profits are "fueling" inflation is completely made up and the people pushing it are lying to everyone for political reasons. Inflation is caused - in most countries - by excessively loose monetary policy (sometimes fiscal policy, sometimes both). If government policy creates inflation (average prices go up) that money…
Inflation is caused by rising prices. In the b2c markets, the prices at set by the companies. It is believed that in presence of sufficient competition, the companies aren't really free to set the price, and are only following the “market price” (they are said to be “price-takers”).
Here we see profit rising, which means that the competition isn't high enough, companies have become “price setters”, and they are setting the rising price. Hence they and their profits are responsible for inflation. QED.
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#64Incredible that there's not even a mention of monetary policy. Are they proposing that corporations suddenly became greedy in 2020? During previous periods of low inflation, did they congratulate those corporations for their altruism in keeping prices low? Money is subject to the same laws of supply and demand as everything else, and when there's more of it, it's less valuable.
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
They do mention monetary policy. Is there something specific about monetary policy that you believe contributed to rising inflation? I don't know if they're suggesting that corporations became greedy but rather that they unilaterally increased prices during the pandemic which is the main cause of inflation.
>Is there something specific about monetary policy that you believe contributed to rising inflation? Surely doubling the money supply in circulation during the 2020 money printing boom had an effect on inflation, wouldn't you say? It' snot like the corporations and street banks just made their money out of thin air.
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is a measure of where inflation "goes", not what fuels inflation. The narrative that profits are "fueling" inflation is completely made up and the people pushing it are lying to everyone for political reasons. Inflation is an increase in price level. When prices go up, one might consider that the price of inputs has gone up, or that profits has gone up, or both. If the inputs go up, and the price stays the sam…
Who had increased spending power exactly? I was under the impression the stimulus was mainly directed towards people who had suffered wage loss due to covid.
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any book about history of inflation shows the same pattern repeated over and over again, for the last 10,000 years: the government debases the money, e.g. the one ounce pure gold coin now is half gold half copper. They start to pay with those coins, at first at the same prices, but with the new demand rising prices go up. The government always try to put the blame on the greedy merchants, and always try to put price…
Precious metal coins is a concept that the ancient Greeks introduced and the Romans spread across their empire. Ancient Egyptians didn't use precious metals. They used something far more mundane. You are a farmer? You bring your harvest of corn to a storage house and receive a receipt of your deposit on a clay tablet. But here is the thing. Storing grains is expensive and they don't last forever, so the depositors ar…
An egyptian government can also "debase" grain. Just issue fake receipts for unexistent grain, and buy things with them at current prices. Suddenly, there are a lot of grain receipts circulating, so you expect prices to rise. The government can now blame the price rise to the merchants! They are the ones that are rising the prices, and that's all you can see.
On the example of the grain deflation, you don't have a "receipt in gold". You buy or sell grain, and that's it. Lets suppose a simple market that stores grain at a cost of 10% in a year. You sell grain on January for 100 ounces of gold, but if you try to re-buy the same amount of grain in December, it costs 110 ounces, or receive a 10% less grain for 100 ounces. As simple as that. Your 100 ounces of January didn't guarantee you the same amount of grain in December, because they are not a "receipt in gold for X amount of grain". Prices are a dynamic way of economic coordination to reflect whatever reality it may come. E.g. if half the silos burn through the year, grain prices will double to reflect that, and that's not inflation. But good luck reclaiming your clay receipt amount of grain.
The problem here is not the gold. The problem is issuing more money than people are demanding. There is nothing wrong with issuing money (e.g. in form of new credit) if people demands credit that they are paying sooner or later. The problem is the government creating new money with zero intention of paying it back, because that fuels inflation.
Deflation is not bad _per se_. We have deflation in computer or mobiles prices since forever: we know we can buy a cheaper computer in the future with the same specs than today, yet we don't hoard money instead of buying computers. We buy them when we really need them. Inflation creates an artificial urge to spend sooner than you want/need, because we know our today money won't buy the same in the future but less. That looks like a good thing on the surface ("the economy moves" they say), but it has a lot of bad consequences: erodes savings, consumption rises above our real needs, investment is more difficult because economic calculations are uncertain.
Historic inflations are well explained here: https://www.amazon.com/Forty-Centuries-Wage-Price-Controls/d..., where the authors collect a large number of inflation events in the last 4,000 years and show how every single government followed the same route: 1) debase the money, 2) expend their newly created money, 3) prices raise, 4) people complain, 5) government blames the merchants and creates laws to control prices and punish price raises 6) inflation persists.
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Capitalism leads to monopolies and related economic structures. It's best for every large player to carve out territory whether it's geography or specialization niche. The fallacy is that this will be a meritocracy. It's not. It's wealth concentration. The haves will buy innovation and deprive the market of competition to themselves. This happens again and again and again.
We see less of these kinds of problems the closer we are to a free market. A pure free market is not realistic, but sadly our current flavor of capitalism has headed far away in the opposite direction.
State is needed to stop too much consolidation from occurring and prevent monopolies where alternatives are sensible.
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is a measure of where inflation "goes", not what fuels inflation. The narrative that profits are "fueling" inflation is completely made up and the people pushing it are lying to everyone for political reasons. Inflation is an increase in price level. When prices go up, one might consider that the price of inputs has gone up, or that profits has gone up, or both. If the inputs go up, and the price stays the sam…
Who had increased spending power exactly? I was under the impression the stimulus was mainly directed towards people who had suffered wage loss due to covid.
On balance, increased government spending adds net financial assets to the private sector and increased taxation removes it.
So did the government need to just "tax back" the money it spent into the economy? Maybe in some ways, but certainly not from the people it gave it to and maybe not at all. BECAUSE during the time when there was a recession avoided by stimulus, the population also grew so there should have been some economic growth during that time anyway.
As such, probably, what should have happened is that the government should have done things to ensure that the (very few) parts of the economy that benefit wildly from lack of competition and dysfunctional markets (like food, energy and housing) didn't accumulate all of the growth that should have been more evenly spread around.
In Australia, we need the government to build roughly 100,000 public houses per year, and we need to dramatically increase net migration to achieve that; but since we're an economy dominated by religion, mining, finance, real estate and insurance that's unlikely to happen. We actually have a horrible housing crisis in this country because of the dramatic increase in single person households as a result of relationship breakdowns over covid and the tendency away from share housing in young people (who can afford it!), as well as an explosion in dwellings used only as short term rentals.
In the US you probably have many of the same problems. The inflation reduction act did some of the work to improve things but it took a while to get it through because Manchin and Sinema fucked the recovery for everyone (as Bernie said: "give us more democrats").
This is the best discussion on inflation I've seen:
https://www.levyinstitute.org/publications/is-it-time-for-ra...
Re: Profit-Price Spiral: Excess Profits Fuelling Inflation, Not Wages
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In dollar terms its profits have gone up but as a percentage they haven't. Citation required.
I can't say whether that's actually happening or not, all I can say is it's a reasonable explanation as to why profits would be going up for many companies.
On Thursday Qantas posted $1.4b half-year profits, tripling revenues
On Wednesday Woolworths posted a 25% rise in profits. Supermarket profits have soared on the strength of rapid food price inflation.
On Tuesday Coles net profit grew 11% in the latest half-year result announced Monday, beating forecasts.
On Wednesday Santos posted a 221% annual profit
Ampol, Australia’s largest oil refiner, reported a 30% increase in first-half net profit, buoyed by soaring petrol prices.
Commonwealth Bank posted a record $5.1b billion profit, up 9%, buoyed by extra interest income from rising interest rates
In every case the increase in profits exceeds inflation, so the increase in profits is definitely not simply a case of percentages remaining the same.