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Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

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Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#61

Post by escape-big-tech »

BaseballPhysics wrote: post #55
coremoff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you don't think it should be a fundamental right because we lost the right before we realized how important it was? How do you propose putting that cat back in the bag? I also think that if we had legislated for privacy, supposing that we had realised its important early enough, what would that battle look like? I expect it would go as well as the war against drugs; if nothing else miniaturisation makes it pract…

> How do you propose putting that cat back in the bag? GDPR was a good start. Creating transparency in data marketplaces, and giving people an affirmative right to have their data removed would be significant progress. Frankly, I'd like to see the buying and selling of individualized data be made completely illegal, with massive fines for companies that misuse or otherwise fail to protect PII. > I'm not saying that I…

> GDPR was a good start.

Honestly, I agree with you, but GDPR is barely a start, it does little to actually protect people's privacy. It needs to expand a lot to be an actual weapon against surveillance

Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#62

Post by printacorn »

diegoholiveira wrote: post #15

> Our mission is clear - we aim to unravel the magic of FOSS, Linux, and self-hosting to individuals seeking a break from the shackles of Big Tech. IMO, it's not only Big Tech that poses a threat on privacy and freedom. Big Governments are other threat that, IMO, it's much harder to fight against it.

>Big Governments are other threat that, IMO, it's much harder to fight against it.

Whenever people complain about Big Government I like to remind them that any attempt at regulating industries like Big Tech is decried by the owner class as "Big Government", which is often parroted by conservatives, libertarians, and other pro-business groups.

So is it Big Government when it protects the interests of Big Industry to the detriment of its country's people, or Big Government when it regulates it to protect the interests of the people? They can't both be the same thing, and I would argue what most people call "Big Government" is what they've been told to call it, namely the regulation of corporate interests. Nobody ever calls the consistent erosion of people's individual rights "Big Government".

Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#63

Post by itronitron »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #6
itronitron wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow

Telly (and similar) is the Pied Piper and the children the people who follow along for his free music and entertainment. Though I get it’s a stretch - I re-read the story so it’s fresh on my mind.

I was thinking that 'big tech' is heralded as a saviour but then it ends up just stealing everyone's information and attention. Although big tech also gets the gold, so it's not a perfect match to the story.

Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#64

Post by vaylian »

coremoff wrote: post #13

I disagree that it's a fundamental right. Over most of history privacy has been rare for most people, with the provisio that if you really wanted a private conversation you could have one in the middle of an open field in daylight with a reasonable expectation that your conversation would not be compromised. These days there can be no such expectation, and we need to separate out discussion of day-to-day privacy from…

Define "fundamental right".

Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#65

Post by tremon »

coremoff wrote: post #13

I disagree that it's a fundamental right. Over most of history privacy has been rare for most people, with the provisio that if you really wanted a private conversation you could have one in the middle of an open field in daylight with a reasonable expectation that your conversation would not be compromised. These days there can be no such expectation, and we need to separate out discussion of day-to-day privacy from…

Over most of history privacy has been rare for most people

Yeah right. You could walk any street, and people would not have known which street you walked before that. You could have your picture taken, and no one who saw your photo could know your name nor your birth date. You could enter a shop, and none of the shopkeepers would know which shop you went to before -- most shopkeepers wouldn't even remember what you bought a week before, unless maybe you were a regular. How can you say that privacy was rare, when it was the natural state of being before mass-scale administration and surveillance was possible?

Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#66

Post by tremon »

coremoff wrote: post #37
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy and private property rights are deeply intertwined (it is, for example, what makes it unlawful for me to walk into your house uninvited and install a hidden camera, or to walk up to your house and stare through your bedroom window while you make love to your partner). Would you argue that, because historically a right to own and control access to private property has "been rare for most people", we shouldn't…

I think here you're conflating phsyical security (am I safe in my home) with privacy (am I unobserved). Yes, I would argue that controlling information access to property should not be considered a fundamental right - in that it's practically un-enforceable for privacy purposes already; I do think there should be an expectation that you can walk around your property without fear of bumping into some stranger though.…

privacy (am I unobserved)

That's not the common definition of privacy. Rather, privacy is having the agency to control which parts of your life to share with which other people. It's a freedom of expression: you are free to decide which part of your personality to express at which time.

Having control over who is observing you is a requisite but not sufficient.

Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#69

Post by booboofixer »

In the discussion of losing privacy we focus on the social freedoms lost as a result of loss of privacy. I agree with all of those arguments but missing from these discussions are the economic freedoms we might lose.

People like to portray their least favorite countries as being engaged in corporate espionage in other developed countries, but what stops your favorite big corp from stealing what you create? Going forward, the value of eyeballs on ads might not be much compared to the value of business ideas, strategies etc. a corporation can access by violating your privacy.

Think of it this way: If you are a business owner, how successful would your business be if every second of the day, your fierce competitors had access to all your phone calls, texts, google docs, spreadsheets etc.? What if your competitor is already established with much more resources to create and get to market before you can?

Re: Privacy: One of the Most Fundamental Human Rights, yet Constantly Under Threat

#70

Post by escape-big-tech »

tremon wrote: post #65
coremoff wrote: post #13

I disagree that it's a fundamental right. Over most of history privacy has been rare for most people, with the provisio that if you really wanted a private conversation you could have one in the middle of an open field in daylight with a reasonable expectation that your conversation would not be compromised. These days there can be no such expectation, and we need to separate out discussion of day-to-day privacy from…

Over most of history privacy has been rare for most people Yeah right. You could walk any street, and people would not have known which street you walked before that. You could have your picture taken, and no one who saw your photo could know your name nor your birth date. You could enter a shop, and none of the shopkeepers would know which shop you went to before -- most shopkeepers wouldn't even remember what you b…

couldn't have said it better myself!
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