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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#61

Post by paddw »

There is obviously a lot of criticism justly being leveled at the poor quality of governance on Rust thus far, but I think a fair point I haven't seen raised is, what other languages lacking a corporate sponsor as the primary driver of governance have done better? (and why)

Python is the main example I can think of after graduating from governance via BDFL, but is there any other new language which has achieved the same level of popularity as Rust?

So far, most of the drama seems to have been tangential to actual language features, so they at least deserve some credit for keeping technical aspects of development mostly on track.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#62

Post by jhatemyjob »

Kye wrote: post #37
jhatemyjob wrote: post #25

This is why I refuse to take Rust, Go, or Swift seriously. There are so many other languages out there that aren't insanely political with so many people's hands in it. There is no way good decisions can be made in an environment like that. Of course, the main advantage of joining the Rust cult is that the job market for "Rust programmers" is pretty well-defined, so labeling yourself as a "Rust programmer" will allow…

I've only seen the wars over when and if to adopt new C and C++ standards in the distant periphery, but it seems like any attempt to encode human interests and needs into systems through code brings about strife. The politics there might be less visible since it happens on mailing lists and old forums no one's ever heard of, but the only difference is visibility. New languages will inevitably adopt the means of commu…

Yes of course C++ isn't any better. C is a weird one since it's the "original language", the base layer of abstraction so-to-speak so C89 is going to be the standard forever. The standards committee around that one has zero power (as far as I can tell).

What I'm comparing Rust/Swift/Go to are languages like MoonScript/Objective-C/Lua, where there is a single BDFL (Leafo/Steve Jobs/Roberto). I feel like for programming languages there should only be 1 or 2 developers, that way there is no conflict of interest or "creative differences"

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#63

Post by kristoff_it »

ummonk wrote: post #38

> Part of me is very disappointed at ThePrimeagen, the Twitch streamer / YouTuber with whom I used to be friendly, for milking those controversies for every view and sub possible. For riling up the masses, adding fuel to the fire, creating the exact opposite of the climate we need to solve these issues. Nah. Bureaucracies don't even try to solve these issues if there isn't a public backlash.

He also like just read the original blog post on stream, said a couple of things about it, mentioned that it's not good that this stuff is happening and moved on. Honestly I don't really see much milking there.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#64

Post by unethical_ban »

jhatemyjob wrote: post #25

This is why I refuse to take Rust, Go, or Swift seriously. There are so many other languages out there that aren't insanely political with so many people's hands in it. There is no way good decisions can be made in an environment like that. Of course, the main advantage of joining the Rust cult is that the job market for "Rust programmers" is pretty well-defined, so labeling yourself as a "Rust programmer" will allow…

If you wanted to use any of these languages, you can do so without ever knowing that these kinds of behind-the-scenes drama is taking place.

I haven't heard anyone suggest that actual development of the named languages has suffered due to drama.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#65

Post by shri_krishna »

jhatemyjob wrote: post #25

This is why I refuse to take Rust, Go, or Swift seriously. There are so many other languages out there that aren't insanely political with so many people's hands in it. There is no way good decisions can be made in an environment like that. Of course, the main advantage of joining the Rust cult is that the job market for "Rust programmers" is pretty well-defined, so labeling yourself as a "Rust programmer" will allow…

I love Go. I don't see any controversies surrounding Go. Or did I miss something?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#66

Post by stefanos82 »

jstx1 wrote: post #51
jhatemyjob wrote: post #25

This is why I refuse to take Rust, Go, or Swift seriously. There are so many other languages out there that aren't insanely political with so many people's hands in it. There is no way good decisions can be made in an environment like that. Of course, the main advantage of joining the Rust cult is that the job market for "Rust programmers" is pretty well-defined, so labeling yourself as a "Rust programmer" will allow…

Wait what have Go and Swift done?

For Go I presume the telemetry situation?

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#67

Post by dmonitor »

xoac wrote: post #44
d3nj4l wrote: post #8

In a way, I find this entire saga incredibly funny. There is so much hand wringing and pearl clutching at something that is supposedly in the shadows - this cabal of four or five people making decisions - that it makes the entire Rust "community" look juvenile. This is the kind of internecine conflict I should see in Anime discord servers, not about a language whose governance involves multiple major corporations!

Any reccomendations for Anime discord channels?

Yes. Join none of them.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#69

Post by maccard »

xdennis wrote: post #39

Does anyone have a impartial summary about what this is about? I always hate when I'm late to drama and I have no idea what anyone is talking about.

Someone was invited to speak as a keynote speaker by the rust team. They worked with the Rust team on the presentation, and seem to have been actively encouraged to do so. Shortly after, they were told by the conference operator that they were being downgraded to a regular speaker, and they blogged their thoughts on why they were asked, and decided to (publicly) pull out of speaking at all. Then a member of the rust leadership team said that a subgroup of the leadership team made the call to remove the speaker from the keynote, and as such this member resigned.

That's my best attempt

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#70

Post by brickteacup »

bluejekyll wrote: post #13
rustthrow wrote: post #3

> The recent incident with ThePHD’s keynote downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully, but… if that’s what it looks like from the outside, and any form of official communication is still days or weeks away, does it really make a difference? yes! it does! we can't keep framing everything as race, gender, or orientation related. people have to have basic filters for what the most important issue is in a situatio…

I believe the reason they are saying it doesn’t matter, is that without a clear statement of what happened from the decision makers, people can speculate. One of those things people will speculate on is if this was one of the reasons. The fact that it is also part of the equation means it can’t be outright ignored and so will also need to be addressed. On top of that, this is already an underrepresented group, and re…

> without a clear statement of what happened from the decision makers, people can speculate

People can always speculate whatever they want. And let's be honest, the kind of people who like making utterly baseless claims about racism will do so regardless of any official statements or explanations. Unless there's actual evidence of racial animus it's best to just ignore these silly people.

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