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Why I Left Rust

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61–70 of 880 posts

Re: Why I Left Rust

#61

Post by weebull »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #14
arp242 wrote: post #10

I've been to plenty of conferences over the years, and I never really knew who was a "keynote speaker" or "only" a "speaker". Does anyone pay attention to this? You give a talk. People show up. They clap at the end. Does it really matter what some title on some conference website is? The communication was perhaps a bit more confusing and hectic than it should have been, but does that really matter? Is that really a b…

I'd love to hear from someone who could outline the distinction between the two. I could certainly believe that it means the difference between the amount of attendees, length of presentation, venue, etc etc. In those cases, it's quite a big deal and quite the dick move, especially given the seemingly unilateral process to "downgrade" the presentation.

Headliner Vs support band

Re: Why I Left Rust

#62

Post by kzrdude »

locusofself wrote: post #5

What's up with all the petty drama in the Rust community.. is it uniquely problematic?

Rust was forged by a close-knit group since they were working at Mozilla, I think the culture has not been able to adapt to the growth since then.

I don't at all mean that the people involved then are at fault, instead: It created structure where Rust community expects Rust leadership to be coherent, close-knit and well connected with the community. It also expects pretty top heavy governance.

I think that is fragile and prone to personality drama when the project grows and the connection with community becomes impossible. A more loose organization would be better. Leaders at the top then don't expect they can steer the project much, teams are independent, the whole thing chugs on with loose governance.

Modern corporate culture expects control, "control of the message" and control of everything. Here we have to release control, it's contrary to other goals of the open source project.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#63

Post by Hamuko »

brgcx wrote: post #45
locusofself wrote: post #5

What's up with all the petty drama in the Rust community.. is it uniquely problematic?

[flagged]

I'm having a hard time remembering any recent Python controversies. For Rust, I can very clearly remember the trademark shitshow and now there's this.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#64

Post by depr »

neonsunset wrote: post #29

I love Rust but the ideological posturing and swathes of people who in their hearts are grifters is truly disappointing. Framing a technical presentation you disagree with as "making you uncomfortable" in highly manipulative fashion definitely deserves to be called out in public.

Indeed it should not be surprising that the community (leadership) who from the outside seems among the most concerned with codes of conduct, inclusion and so on, is actually not so virtuous at all.

I am all for many of the stated goals of "woke" or whatever you want to call them, but it is really reminiscent of the politician who wants to ban porn but has his entire computer filled with it.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#65

Post by arp242 »

samastur wrote: post #21
arp242 wrote: post #10

I've been to plenty of conferences over the years, and I never really knew who was a "keynote speaker" or "only" a "speaker". Does anyone pay attention to this? You give a talk. People show up. They clap at the end. Does it really matter what some title on some conference website is? The communication was perhaps a bit more confusing and hectic than it should have been, but does that really matter? Is that really a b…

I haven't been to a conference in years because of COVID, but I've been to plenty mainly web and Python related before. Almost all of them had keynote speakers, who received a prominent spot, usually in the morning and on multi-tier conferences the only talk scheduled at that time slot. Based on content of most of those talks the expectation was to take a wider or deeper or just different look at our fields and not m…

I'm not saying the process was brilliant, but there's a difference between "the organizers were chaotic, didn't have their shit together, and need to do better" and "the organizers intentionally acted cruelly in an act of racist vindictiveness out of sheer malice".

That's really my main objection to this post; and in the context of the accusations it makes the change of title is not really a big deal, or so it seems to me anyway.

Or to put it this way: if it was me I probably would have been a bit disappointed, but I would also assume that's just the chaos of things.

But like I said in my other comment: I suspect this is really about general dissatisfaction with the Rust team, and that this is merely the final straw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36102292

Re: Why I Left Rust

#66

Post by weebull »

adrianN wrote: post #19
locusofself wrote: post #5

What's up with all the petty drama in the Rust community.. is it uniquely problematic?

I don't see evidence that there is more drama in the Rust community than in other communities. Posts with Rust in the title just have better chances to make it to the HN frontpage.

Sorry, but no. The leaders in the Rust community appear to be particularly tone deaf and on a power trip. I think the explosions going off in their faces are needed right now.

Re: Why I Left Rust

#67

Post by depr »

adrianN wrote: post #19
locusofself wrote: post #5

What's up with all the petty drama in the Rust community.. is it uniquely problematic?

I don't see evidence that there is more drama in the Rust community than in other communities. Posts with Rust in the title just have better chances to make it to the HN frontpage.

What would the evidence you are looking for look like?

Re: Why I Left Rust

#68

Post by Jare »

locusofself wrote: post #5

What's up with all the petty drama in the Rust community.. is it uniquely problematic?

I think what you are seeing is a community with problems like any other community, but which has a significant amount of people who are willing to risk public visibility in order to fight and fix them.

Other communities either try to actively hide problems, or handwave them as "boys will be boys shrug".

Re: Why I Left Rust

#70

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

ummonk wrote: post #20
znpy wrote: post #13

So basically “I don’t like your article” is enough to get a speaker removed in the rust conf / rust leadership space? Ngl, that looks like teen drama. Really poor leadership, it seems there wasn’t even an attempt at mediation, or a vote, or anything.

Yeah, and merely over some random technical article, not controversial politics or anything.

Well, for context the speaker pointed out in the past that there were no presenters of color at Rust conf at the time, and they themselves would have been the first person of color to do a keynote if they'd been allowed to do it.

I don't know if that was a motivation here by the person who went solo or if they were just personally jilted over a technical disagreement about the best way to handle reflection, but from the outside it looks quite bad regardless, which shows again more consideration should have been paid to this decision.

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