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The Sourdough Framework

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Re: The Sourdough Framework

#61

Post by tomp »

soperj wrote: post #40
crispyambulance wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sourdough is many types of bread. The only thing in common is that the leavening agent is natural rather than commercial yeast. You can have sourdough that isn't "sour", in fact, it's typically not sour. Ciabatta and baguettes are frequently made with natural levain (sourdough). I think that the sour taste reputation comes from particular styles like "San Francisco sourdough" and the fact that many folks over-do it w…

Yep, it's actually more difficult to get the sour flavor than it is to not get it.

Really? I'd love to get less sour flavour, but proofing overnight (in the fridge) looks like it's really hard to avoid it...

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#62

Post by tomp »

crispyambulance wrote: post #30
iraldir wrote: post #14

The concept is appealing but the name seems reductory. Sourdough, despite its fame, is but one type of bread. Seing that you had another book called the bread code I went to check that out but it's marked deprecated by this one. So is this a case of an ill-fitting name that does not do justice to the content, or is the content just limited to sourdough as the end-all of bread making? I'm personally not found of the s…

Sourdough is many types of bread. The only thing in common is that the leavening agent is natural rather than commercial yeast. You can have sourdough that isn't "sour", in fact, it's typically not sour. Ciabatta and baguettes are frequently made with natural levain (sourdough). I think that the sour taste reputation comes from particular styles like "San Francisco sourdough" and the fact that many folks over-do it w…

Do you know of a bullet-proof sourdough Ciabatta recipe? All that I've made either didn't rise, or were too weak so they spread out a lot before rising...

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#63

Post by 9dev »

chefandy wrote: post #58

I should make some of these for savory cooking. I'm a classically trained chef, (though glad I no longer work in food service,) designer, artist, long-time developer, and have a useful balance between the technical and aesthetic perspectives on cooking. While I'd normally call a document like this a deep-dive into a "technique" or, maybe a collection of techniques, calling it a framework might be a useful mental mode…

I’ve been cooking for most of my life, with my mother letting me help in the kitchen starting with 4.I never learned much theory and just went by what felt right or tasted good. I would say over time, you get a feeling for the basic building blocks - which ingredients match, how to a certain texture, when to reduce things or add some liquid,and so on - which makes recipes more like guidelines, or inspiration, introducing a new idea or combination.

Incidentally, that also matches the way I’ve learned programming, and likewise, I notice the same downsides - sometimes, I know there’s a better, or more reliable, way to achieve something, but I lack the theoretic background to go there.

Having said all that: I would really appreciate learning the way different taste combinations work out. High quality restaurants always seem to combine simple ingredients into an elegant „pattern“ of aroma (you see I notice good terms), something I never quite manage. I bet there’s some simply chemistry involved, some generic rules broadly applicable. I’d love to read that!

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#64

Post by malikNF »

Started making sourdough a few months back thanks to the bread code youtube channel [1](someone here actually recommended them)

He taught everything from creating your starter from just water and flour. And then goes in to so many little details that made my first sourdough bread actually something I was proud if. He’s a great teacher.

It’s really fun and you don’t need that much to get started.

[1]https://m.youtube.com/@the_bread_code

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#65

Post by junon »

HeckFeck wrote: post #45
junon wrote: post #3

I thought this was going to be yet another javascript frontend framework with yet another less than descriptive name, but lo and behold this is actually about sourdough. Neat! EDIT: Appears the author has one for Pizza Dough[0]. Gotta try that one out as it's more applicable to me than sourdough. [0] https://github.com/hendricius/pizza-dough

sourdough.js was initially appreciated for being an airy-light framework, but as it rose to a great height many security holes were spotted under the crust; it wasn't quite ready for the daily crunch of production. The dev team tried to butter over these concerns, but it wasn't enough. It was forgotten and the codebase is mostly stale now.

Devs too to long to cook up new features which left a sour taste in my mouth tbh.

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#66

Post by ericghildyal »

junon wrote: post #65
HeckFeck wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sourdough.js was initially appreciated for being an airy-light framework, but as it rose to a great height many security holes were spotted under the crust; it wasn't quite ready for the daily crunch of production. The dev team tried to butter over these concerns, but it wasn't enough. It was forgotten and the codebase is mostly stale now.

Devs too to long to cook up new features which left a sour taste in my mouth tbh.

Don't worry, it looks to be on the rise, there will be more features baked in before you know it!

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#67

Post by danielovichdk »

soperj wrote: post #39
Yeroc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any plan to introduce some simplifications to the processes using things like a bread machine to handle automating the rise and kneading of the bread doughs?

As someone who bakes bread and other doughy items weekly and has for over a decade, bread machines are more work than making by hand and make bread that sucks. If you use less yeast, and let it slow rise there's no kneeding involved and it tastes way better.

Sure. But with sourdough the dough needs to build gluten when mixed, hence the window-test. More gluten gives a stronger and airy loaf. You can do that by hands but it takes too much effort compared to a machine. Imo

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#68

Post by danielovichdk »

Making a good airy loaf with a good caramelised crust is a craft that most people will come to find extremely difficult.

It's so much about bacteria, flour type, humidity, heat/cool, rest, gluten, proteins and practice.

A good idea is to use the same flour when you practice. Over and over again.

Use less water in the beginning and use a machine for kneading. Don't be pedantic about exact grams but be as precise as you feel.

It's a really really interesting process and it becomes interesting because its a living thing. It's bacteria that does the magic. Love it

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#69

Post by danjoredd »

timdiggerm wrote: post #18

From the intro: > It is crazy if you think about it. People have been using this process despite not knowing what was actually going on for thousands of years! Just wait until you hear about literally everything ever

Its pretty crazy. I wonder how many things like that we do now...using a process without really understanding what is happening. Computers, cars, and technology are easy guesses but I am willing to bet there is a lot of "non-tech" stuff that we do like that. Doing something with a proven process, but never really understanding why that process works.

Re: The Sourdough Framework

#70

Post by phreeza »

danielovichdk wrote: post #68

Making a good airy loaf with a good caramelised crust is a craft that most people will come to find extremely difficult. It's so much about bacteria, flour type, humidity, heat/cool, rest, gluten, proteins and practice. A good idea is to use the same flour when you practice. Over and over again. Use less water in the beginning and use a machine for kneading. Don't be pedantic about exact grams but be as precise as yo…

I use a machine for the initial kneading but then do manual stretch and fold a couple of times.
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