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Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

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Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#61

Post by unethical_ban »

owyn wrote: post #21
skrtskrt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota's hybrid tech is and has been the best and most reliable for a very long time. I think it's a shame that the EV regulations and incentives (at least in America) are not as friendly for traditional hybrids and plug-in hybrids. They have basically zero downsides compared to full ICE or full EV, and would still make a massive dent in emissions. PHEVs in particular - most people are going under 100 miles a day, so…

Toyota just has to extend the range of the various plug-in hybrid "Prime" models to 100+ miles on EV, which is totally doable. Right now it's already 25-40 miles. In the US in particular that's going to be a good compromise for a lot of people.

I mean, even 40 miles is a significant portion of many peoples commutes. Elimination of 50-95% of gas consumption is a big win.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#62

Post by beefee »

Owners may want to disable this in hardware rather than relying on a sketchy opt-out mechanism. The relevant part is the "data communications module". It has an LTE modem and a backup battery, so it's able to transmit even if the car battery is disconnected. It requires a little bit of dashboard disassembly to access. You can either remove it or disconnect the LTE and GPS antennas. Toyota has technical documents available for $25 at https://techinfo.toyota.com.

It would be great if there was some website that collected all the detailed instructions for removing the spy devices from different car models.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#63

Post by jeffbee »

thewataccount wrote: post #23

Their privacy policy is wild and every customer is opted into the connect services by default. Interior images, exterior images, facial geometry, voice recordings, location/driving data, "multimedia screen data", https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230512182022/https://www.toyot...

All car shrink-wrap licenses that I have looked at are similar. That's why I think it is funny when people freak out about Android Automotive. The Android Automotive terms are much, much better for customer privacy.

The EULA for my Honda says that Honda can and will share all available data with itself and third parties, named and unnamed, for any or no reason.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#64

Post by [deleted] »

JohnFen wrote: post #43
wolrah wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All machines of meaningful complexity need maintenance if you expect them to last, including EVs, and a fluid change that happens twice a year for most vehicles isn't exactly a huge inconvenience. IMO getting under your vehicle twice a year is a good thing and more people should be encouraged to do it. Getting eyes on the stuff hidden underneath before it gets bad enough to start breaking is always useful.

> Getting eyes on the stuff hidden underneath before it gets bad enough to start breaking is always useful. For people like myself, looking at the underside of a car is worthless. I wouldn't even begin to be able to recognize something needs attention until it's very obviously broken. And even then, I might not know.

[deleted]

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#65

Post by vb6sp6 »

Throw3849949 wrote: post #59
jerry1979 wrote: post #52

Does anyone have a guide to modding vehicles to prevent them from collecting data? I would be willing to snip the microphone in the cab and remove the gps receiver if I knew where it was.

GSM and GPS jammer is the only reliable way.

[dead]

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#66

Post by jeffbee »

Throw3849949 wrote: post #59
jerry1979 wrote: post #52

Does anyone have a guide to modding vehicles to prevent them from collecting data? I would be willing to snip the microphone in the cab and remove the gps receiver if I knew where it was.

GSM and GPS jammer is the only reliable way.

Isn't unplugging the antenna lead significantly easier?

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#67

Post by dylan604 »

thewataccount wrote: post #23

Their privacy policy is wild and every customer is opted into the connect services by default. Interior images, exterior images, facial geometry, voice recordings, location/driving data, "multimedia screen data", https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230512182022/https://www.toyot...

I've purchased a few Toyota models, with the first having the connect service being a 2014 model. The sales rep asked for my phone so they could download the app that works with their system. The manner in which it was asked was interesting to me in that they clearly had not had someone so much as flinch as to giving them their unlocked phone and access to an app store. Maybe I was the first person not a grandparent they had worked with, but they obviously were not handed my unlocked phone. Since it was my first car with a connected system, I tried it out but was very unhappy with it. Their GPS required you to use your phone to enter a location and provide GPS. The in car system was basically just a screen for the services your device provided. The next time I purchased a car, I never even connected a phone to it.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#69

Post by Joe_Boogz »

nico wrote: post #56

God damn it Toyota, I love Toyota Still going to keep my cars As long as they don’t start trying to charge me for the seat warmer

I mean... they've already started charging a subscription fee for using your KEY FOB auto start after their trial period ends.

Enough to make me not buy a new Toyota ever again.

Re: Toyota: Car location data and videos of 2M customers exposed for ten years

#70

Post by standardUser »

iambateman wrote: post #42
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a simple equation: Revenue = (value of data per person) x (number of customers) - (probably of data loss) x (probability of fine) x (cost of fine). If that number is greater than zero, they'll do it, if it's less than zero, they won't.

This is how engineers think executive decisions are made and it is just not accurate. The CEO of Toyota plays golf with the uncle of the head of the “we track you forever” group. They both feel like the nephew has a big future and there is a ton of money to be made over the next 5 years before the CEO plans to retire. Plus, according to their marketing team, Volkswagen is worse. Much worse. There is way less science…

The Ford Pinto scandal was found to be a pretty clear cut case of an auto company refusing to do a recall because dealing with the expected number of injuries and deaths would be cheaper.

So the OP's perspective is accurate. It's not all just golf and nepotism.

"The evidence suggests that Ford relied, at least in part, on cost-benefit reasoning, which is an analysis in monetary terms of the expected costs and benefits of doing something."

https://philosophia.uncg.edu/phi361-matteson/module-1-why-do...

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