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New cars are just for rich people now

jalopnik.com

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Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#61

Post by jeffwask »

prng2021 wrote: post #29
helen___keller wrote: post #22

> Back in 2017, if you wanted a car that cost less than $20,000, you had 11 options. Fast forward to March of 2023, and that list had been narrowed to only two. The story here is just “inflation happened”

That’s definitely a big part, but the other major reasons are: 1. Companies are focusing on selling higher profit margin vehicles (more expensive models vs high volume budget models) 2. Companies are focusing on SUVs and trucks since bigger cars are in demand. 3. To a small extent, the focus on inherently more expensive EV models

And even in a subgroup like trucks, try buying a basic stripped down pickup like you could 15-20 years ago. Just two doors and an 8 foot bed, a truck... they don't make them anymore. Instead you get one of these giant penis extensions they sell now and call trucks. I don't want 4 doors and leather, it doesn't need to be 8 feet off the ground, it doesn't need to the the size and weight of a semi... I just want a utility vehicle to haul crap between home depot, the dump, and my house. Even what used to be cheap, practical cars are now draped in "optional" bullshit you can't opt out of.

And now they want to gate features in my car behind yearly subscriptions, they can fuck right off. I'm not even tempted to buy new. I'm more likely to start buying older I don't want my car getting random software bugs and phoning home to turn of my heated seats.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#62

Post by Toutouxc »

From the Washington post article:

> Ramirez, 33, and his wife Angelica Castro-Calle really want a new, small SUV with a little space for camping and paddleboarding gear

> Johnny Loredo and his wife paid $38,000 for a new Nissan Frontier truck

> If they hadn’t had a used Suburban to trade in

Yeaah. That could be the issue. People aren’t looking to buy cars anymore, but tanks.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#63

Post by yamtaddle »

We make like 3-3.5x household median for our city and I can't imagine buying a new car. The prices are batshit crazy. In the late '00s budget cars existed at like $9k new and $20k would get you a pretty damn good vehicle. Now that barely gets you a pretty damn good seven-year-old, used vehicle.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#64

Post by jandrese »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #33
BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A correction from an inflated peak all across 2022 when chip shortages starved supply and gas prices surged EV demand. Production for many of the highly sought-after models is only now starting to catch up.

Average EV price in 2020 was $55,000 and average ICE price was $39,000. Average EV price today is $55,000 and average ICE price is $48,000. Both ICE & EV went up about $10K, but the EV price has dropped back and the ICE hasn't.

Add in the $7500 federal tax credit on that EV and it's a dead heat. Even worse Tesla has a hefty margin on their vehicles right now and could go lower if they really wanted to put the squeeze on traditional automakers. They're also aggressively cost cutting the production. I think Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Volkswagon, etc... are in more trouble than most people realize at the moment. I'm not saying they're going to go out of business next year, but I think they're going to experience significant market shrinkage in the coming decade if they continue down the path they are on.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#65

Post by sandworm101 »

danielvaughn wrote: post #53

I'm speaking out of ignorance here, since I have no idea what role a microchip plays in modern vehicles, but obviously it's geared towards software components. Assuming that's true, then this whole chip shortage would have been a great time for someone to bring a software-less, low-tech vehicle to the market. I've personally been wanting that as our last vehicle completely shit the bed when the digital transmission e…

They aren't really what HN people would consider serious microchips. They certainly aren't CPUs. They are lots of basic little chips doing things like regulating an engine parameter or detecting brake pedal forces. One way forwards in reducing the overall demand for chips, the square-inches of silicon needed in a car, is to abandon the approach of scattering little chips all over the vehicle. Instead they could route all the wiring into a centralized control with a powerful CPU running effectively an OS for the entire vehicle. One chip to rule them all. But that just isn't how cars have evolved. History has incrementally made every system componentized and independent.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#66

Post by galaxytachyon »

danielvaughn wrote: post #53

I'm speaking out of ignorance here, since I have no idea what role a microchip plays in modern vehicles, but obviously it's geared towards software components. Assuming that's true, then this whole chip shortage would have been a great time for someone to bring a software-less, low-tech vehicle to the market. I've personally been wanting that as our last vehicle completely shit the bed when the digital transmission e…

Even a "low-tech" car is still very complicated to build. Someone who is good enough to make a very good old style car (like Honda or Toyota), isn't financially incentivized to do so anymore. Such a car would not have any features to justify its brand new price over a used one. And the cost to reserve an entire factory line for this model is just too expensive and probably sale won't recover the cost of doing so.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#67

Post by bryanlarsen »

Beached wrote: post #42
shmatt wrote: post #30

EVs are the way to go right now. Between the "fleet" loophole for federal credits, state credits, free charging for 2-3 years in some cases, discounted charging at night, manufacturers trying to get rid of the EVs that didn't succeed, no sales tax in some states. It's probably 50% cheaper than an ICE car

can you please link an ev that's cheaper than a 26k total cost of ownership over a 10y period(excluding registration) I bought a midsized sedan in 2019, 10y warranty, 17k out the door. I tried to justify the cost of an ev, the cheapest I could find was 32k after credits.

If you do 200,000 miles over those 10 years on a 20mpg car with $5/gallon gas, that's $50K in gas for your $17k car. I assume your numbers are lower, but it's not hard to see how TCO for an EV can be cheaper for many.

My electric company just introduced a 2.9c/kWh overnight rate. At 4 miles/kWh, that works out $1450 for 200,000 miles.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#68

Post by naravara »

nayuki wrote: post #52
naravara wrote: post #31

This may not be the worst thing honestly, from an environmental perspective. The cars themselves have much longer usable lives now so it's for the best that cars move down to new users instead of needing to build more and more. The downsides, however, is that while the car part of the car is more durable and long-lasting than ever, the software/computer parts of the car are hamstrung by terrible decisions that are su…

Discouraging car use through high prices could be a great thing. But cities have been designed to favor car convenience so much, at the expense of everything else (walking, cycling, mass transit), that people are essentially forced to buy a car in order to work, shop, and survive. We discuss these things on Reddit/FuckCars.

People will still drive, they will just buy and drive used cars instead of new ones. Since the cars themselves are more durable, they will last longer and create less of an environmental burden to produce. (Assuming they are properly and adequately maintained. If people buying new are cycling through in 3-4 year intervals and not maintaining them since it's someone else's problem then that'll be much worse.)

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#69

Post by naravara »

GalenErso wrote: post #41
naravara wrote: post #31

This may not be the worst thing honestly, from an environmental perspective. The cars themselves have much longer usable lives now so it's for the best that cars move down to new users instead of needing to build more and more. The downsides, however, is that while the car part of the car is more durable and long-lasting than ever, the software/computer parts of the car are hamstrung by terrible decisions that are su…

More expensive cars are better for the environment if people start driving less or stop driving. But it's worse for the environment if people hold on to older cars, because they are less fuel efficient than newer models and release more fine particles in the air.

Is that still true of new cars made in the 2020s? I assume the emissions difference between a 6-10 year old ICE vehicle and a brand new ICE vehicle are probably pretty negligible in light of the footprint required to produce and bring a brand new ICE vehicle to market.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#70

Post by elcano »

Beached wrote: post #42
shmatt wrote: post #30

EVs are the way to go right now. Between the "fleet" loophole for federal credits, state credits, free charging for 2-3 years in some cases, discounted charging at night, manufacturers trying to get rid of the EVs that didn't succeed, no sales tax in some states. It's probably 50% cheaper than an ICE car

can you please link an ev that's cheaper than a 26k total cost of ownership over a 10y period(excluding registration) I bought a midsized sedan in 2019, 10y warranty, 17k out the door. I tried to justify the cost of an ev, the cheapest I could find was 32k after credits.

With credits, Aisera base model may get close to that number. But you will have to wait for it to be released and there're lots of people in line ahead of you. With that price and their right to repair policy, it is the less risky of the EV startups at this moment.

The link goes to the Launch Edition. But you can edit the options to reduce the sticker price to $25,600.

However, the All-Wheel option is tempting. Nobody needs a 0-60MPH in 3.5 seconds car, but it's very cool, anyway.

https://aptera.us/shop/

Depending on your commuting needs and sun availability in your area you might not need to recharge, ever.

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