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The Missing App Economy (2022)

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Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#61

Post by manmal »

rchaud wrote: post #43
manmal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Video fundraisers, paid messages, creator subscriptions, tips, interactive live streams and tiered subscriptions As a user, that doesn’t sound great to be honest.

Are you a user of this particular product though? I personally don't play video games anymore because single-player is largely an afterthought, and they no longer come in a box costing $20-50. That was my mental model of the games business, but the industry has moved on to DLCs, microtransactions, subscriptions etc. And seeing as how gaming is bigger than ever, the majority appears to have accepted the pricing change…

My son had loads of fun with Hogwarts Legacy, and that’s before any DLCs or multiplayer. Same with Stray, Unravel, and other titles. I agree there’s lots of games that I just don’t consider playing because of the reasons you mentioned.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#62

Post by theK »

TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #55
theK wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You now too have a wallet that slowly drains while you use the internet. Web3 wallets are just better integrated into it. Also, there is a misconception that the cryptocurrency based web is like dial up. It isn't. What it is is: 1. a way to decouple the ownership of the digital goods from the service that gave them to you 2. a way to actually do privacy preserving computing 3. an open layer to build added value thing…

Which of my wallets is draining as watch YouTube/TikTok/Twitch or read HN/Reddit? I have guesses on what you could mean (data, attention, etc), but some clarification would be nice. 1. There's no question that ownership is going to be a hot-button issue going forward, but I don't see how decentralization solves that problem (i.e NFTs being on ten different chains). 2. How does it preserve privacy? If I share data wit…

Good questions.

I actually meant your normal wallet or bank account. They have a tendency to go towards zero even if we don't do anything because we already are paying monthly to be connected to the modern world. But yeah, attention and data are also good example of ones value draining away while using the web.

Re 1: most L1 blockchains have bridges to each other now. This means that I can move assets from one ecosystem to another quite easily. If one discounts the ethereum network, moving across chains is actually quite economic as well.

Re 2: in web2.0 sharing your data with another party was the only way to play. In the decentralized internet it is not. There is a lot of interesting work going on in this domain actually.

Re 3: I'll use an example from the gaming world but the concepts are transferable to non gaming 1 to 1. If Activision decides to create digital collectibles in their games today, I as an indie Dev cannot create a game where a user can log in and have their Activision stuff available in my game. In web3 these assets are encoded as state on an open platform so anybody can integrate them in their applications. In the case where NFTs are 1st class chain state, like in Cardano, you are even guaranteed that you can trade your NFT on whatever platform you choose, be that an indie game or the originating marketplace. Is it clearer now what the added value is?

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#63

Post by kyleyeats »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #58
kyleyeats wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called dweb. Sometimes people do get it confused with 'web3' but that was just the name of the massive 2-billion-dollar shit a16z took on everything. Dwebcamp just extended ticket sales if you want to go talk to real dweb people: https://dwebcamp.org/

I'm familiar with dweb, but it seems that they're just preparing to relearn the lessons of the early web (federation doesn't work; you need mechanisms to maintain Byzantine fault tolerant consensus; explicit economic incentives are required if you don't want the system to develop out-of-protocol centralizing economics; etc.).

So I'm just working on a CSS thing that barely qualifies as dweb. But the people I talk to that are into building solutions are well aware of the problems and tradeoffs. I don't disagree with your assessment. But the relearning is like our way of mining for genuinely new lessons. We're quixotic but totally self-aware about it.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#64

Post by specialist »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #22

It should be obvious to everyone now that centralized platforms (like Apple's App Store) might be generous and foster innovation during their growth stages, but then become extractive and limit innovation in later stages. After all, they have total control of the platforms. This is why decentralization matters.[1] The problem is that "decentralized" protocols often end up becoming de facto centralized because they la…

> might be generous and foster innovation during their growth stages, but then become extractive and limit innovation in later stages.

Winner-takes-all is something like a law of nature.

While I'm very pro-competition, trust busting (anti-monopoly), and nurturing young small businesses...

I suspect that churn matters. Innovation and creativity requires the Powers That Be give the old ant farm a good shaking every few years.

I have no idea what that'd look like. The only historical analogy I have are Debt Jubilees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_jubilee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(biblical)

Said another way...

I'd be fine with maximally rights granting patents, all but sovereign corporate charters, and other final boss economic and political arrangements, provided that it all gets burned down every 7 years.

The water bowl a good oxygenation for the gold fish to thrive.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#65

Post by ibeckermayer »

PaulHoule wrote: post #7
rchaud wrote: post #5

To paraphrase the article: with the Google-Apple mobile duopoly, consumers are stuck between a rock (web apps) and a hard place (native apps). It isn't in Apple's interest to allow web apps on iOS to have feature parity with native apps, because that's where Apple's moat is. It isn't in Google's interest to allow mobile web browsers the freedom to behave like desktop browsers (extensions and filesystem APIs), because…

I’d say Safari is not bad at all on an iPad. I remember a lot of people carping because of bad ideas from PWAs not being implemented (spam spamifications, half-baked rube goldberg schemes that accomplish half of what Netscape Netcaster did back in the day…) but really all the real web apps and even demos like visualization of NeRF models work on my iPad.

“Spam spamifications” as in, notifications?

Good luck building a competitive direct messaging client without “spam spamifications”.

PWAs aren’t ideal, but building to a single platform with different screen sizes is far more efficient and achievable for upstarts than building multiple separate apps in different languages targeting multiple platforms. Arbitrarily limiting features like “spam spamifications” just gives an arbitrary advantage to the well funded over the independent and bootstrapped.

Re: The Missing App Economy (2022)

#66

Post by cxr »

theK wrote: post #62
TobyTheDog123 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of my wallets is draining as watch YouTube/TikTok/Twitch or read HN/Reddit? I have guesses on what you could mean (data, attention, etc), but some clarification would be nice. 1. There's no question that ownership is going to be a hot-button issue going forward, but I don't see how decentralization solves that problem (i.e NFTs being on ten different chains). 2. How does it preserve privacy? If I share data wit…

Good questions. I actually meant your normal wallet or bank account. They have a tendency to go towards zero even if we don't do anything because we already are paying monthly to be connected to the modern world. But yeah, attention and data are also good example of ones value draining away while using the web. Re 1: most L1 blockchains have bridges to each other now. This means that I can move assets from one ecosys…

> I actually meant your normal wallet or bank account.

Unless I'm on a mobile provider plan with data caps, the cost of consuming an additional Web page is zero.

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