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The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

#61

Post by zokier »

crtified wrote: post #38

Low wage industries struggle in high wage countries. Globalization displaces natural local supply and demand outcomes. The above two factors result in some very complex status quos. For example, take the country of New Zealand, whose significant apple growing industry is largely for export purposes - ostensibly, sending good fresh highly-valued NZ apples to other countries, where they'll fetch max $. Problem: apple w…

> for whom any NZ wage is a fortune back home

This is the problem to solve, and something I believe is becoming solved gradually even if very slowly; developing nations have been developing. But if we manage to eradicate this idea of "high wage countries", or at least reduce it so that the imbalance is not order(s) of magnitude, then that will alleviate many of the negative side-effects of globalization.

Re: The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

#63

Post by crtified »

okillbite wrote: post #58
golergka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fault? The situation with apple producers you just described looks like a win-win situation both for consumers and immigrants. The only ones losing are New Zealand workers, but from all invoked groups, they're the only citizens who could theoretically vote out these politicians.

And those workers don't want to do those jobs, for that $, anyway. A friend of mine with a farm in Quebec, Canada says even if you can find folks to do the work and pay them well, they often aren't reliable. Better all round to use temporary workers

Only a minority of people have an aptitude for work consisting of an 8-hour hard-focused physical workout every day.

In the same way that only a minority of people have an aptitude for work consisting of an 8-hour hard-focused (e.g.) mathematical workout every day.

The difference is that the former tends to come with a sub-cultural attitude of "people who can't/won't are Lazy", which is unfortunate and misguided, in the very same manner that a "people who can't/won't do maths all day are Stupid" view would be.

Re: The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

#64

Post by snarf21 »

harshaw wrote: post #28

This farm is in Harvard MA - e.g the exurbs of Boston. Harvard is one of these communities that has large minimum lot sizes and restrictions on commercial property so it retains its rural feel. It's pretty, possibly not the best use of property in Boston these days, kinda snooty, and is certainly not a cheap place to run a family farm. A couple towns south where I live there are many active small farms. They either s…

Agreed you have to go big or go retail. There is no other option. However, at some point 1K or 2K dairy cows hardly feels much like a "family farm" anymore.

Re: The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

#65

Post by dekhn »

colechristensen wrote: post #49
dekhn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the H from the oil (literally the hydrogen atom) is incorporated chemically into the resulting ammonia, which would be consistent with saying "oil is turned into fertilizer" in most worlds that I move through.

I mean, yes, this is what I explained, but in no way is the hydrocarbon necessary , it's just one of many alternative feedstocks for hydrogen.

I don't think this is logical. You said "oil is not turned into fertilizer" but then you agree, oil can be used to do it. And, in reality, nearly all nitrogen fertilizer uses oil as the feedstock, so probably, in the future, don't say "you don't know what you're talking about" unless you are 100% technically correct, which in this case, I don't think you were.

Re: The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

#67

Post by photochemsyn »

This 17-acre farm was enough to keep about eight humans alive if it had been the sole source of agricultural production to feed them.

That's the fundamental equation, and it generally assumes a vegan diet as well. Nobody has ever been able to reduce this value, it's related to the solar input and the ability of plants to capture carbon into a human-digestible energy source.

It'll be worse on Mars, of course, due to the reduced intensity of sunlight.

Re: The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

#68

Post by Arn_Thor »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #7

From an economic standpoint, there is no sense in small scale farming. From a personal standpoint, the sensible thing to do is to scale it down to subsistence gardening for yourself and your family. That is what my family does. I remember, when I was still young, they still used to sell some produce. Nowadays it is entirely consumed by the family or gifted out. The benefit of this, is that you are free from economic…

You're right, from an economic standpoint, at least on the surface. But what of the social and ecological benefits of keeping alive small communities and small fields with diverse crops? The problems with large-scale monoculture farming are well known. A counter-argument is that food is too cheap. That obviously doesn't feel correct for someone struggling to pay the bills each month, but still... Workers are being squeezed on one end and small farmers are being squeezed on the other, and the gains go somewhere else entirely while small communities fall into despair and die out.

Re: The last days of a 350-year-old family farm

#70

Post by ed25519FUUU »

zokier wrote: post #61
crtified wrote: post #38

Low wage industries struggle in high wage countries. Globalization displaces natural local supply and demand outcomes. The above two factors result in some very complex status quos. For example, take the country of New Zealand, whose significant apple growing industry is largely for export purposes - ostensibly, sending good fresh highly-valued NZ apples to other countries, where they'll fetch max $. Problem: apple w…

> for whom any NZ wage is a fortune back home This is the problem to solve, and something I believe is becoming solved gradually even if very slowly; developing nations have been developing. But if we manage to eradicate this idea of "high wage countries", or at least reduce it so that the imbalance is not order(s) of magnitude, then that will alleviate many of the negative side-effects of globalization.

We can’t eliminate it on a city by city, or state by state basis. How would that inequality ever be eliminated on a country by country basis?
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