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Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

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Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#61

Post by aesh2Xa1 »

lostgame wrote: post #39
quaintdev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make phone Google free. More features here https://grapheneos.org/features

So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store? (Pardon my ignorance, I’m an iOS dev and have been for a decade; I don’t really know the Android landscape.)

No, not necessarily.

The project officially develops secure, private access to the Play Store and its apps. My interpretation is that the project's authors prefer users to use the secure Play Store implementation over alternatives like Aurora, even if Aurora works fine.

https://grapheneos.org/faq#google-services

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#62

Post by p1mrx »

plorg wrote: post #2

The title of the article is misleading. The author says the phone cannot be bootloader unlocked without first connecting to the Internet. Once they have connected they are able to unlock the bootloader.

The title actually is accurate for the Pixel 2. There are a bunch of those that nobody ever figured out how to unlock:

https://jacobhall.net/2022/01/29/000177/

https://support.google.com/pixelphone/thread/14920605/google...

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#63

Post by ouid »

jvanderbot wrote: post #25
Bran_son wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, security is used as an excuse to lock down more than is necessary. To prevent the supply chain attack you mention, the boot lock just has to be tamper evident, such as showing a "Bootloader unlocked" message during boot. As is already the case in some phones. Additionally, a way to reset to a factory-verified state could undo such an attack. Warranty could also easily be achieved by flipping a non-reversibl…

Pixel's are locked down a very tiny bit , and I don't think this is some kind of dystopian over-reach with security as an excuse. For all the security listed in this thread the whole "I must connect to the internet once" problem is a very fair tradeoff from the user's perspective.

The internet is not a thing you connect to, what you must actually do is register your intent to disable the bootloader with an adversarially controlled server, and that server must respond with a yes.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#64

Post by m_kos »

jesprenj wrote: post #51

I got a Samsung S21 FE 5G as an award on a programming competition. OEM unlocking wasn't even an option in the developer settings until I connected the phone to the internet and set the date to one month in the past (I assume this has something to do with the warranty -- you can't even unlock the bootloader right away). An internet connection was required before even using the phone on the Android initial setup scree…

One thing I find very annoying about Samsung is that it tries to get people to use Bixby (Samsung's "Google Assistant") by remapping their phone's power button to Bixby. Due to the nature of my current project, I talked to many Samsung owners in their 50s and 60s who don't know how to turn Bixby off and, consequently, don't know how to, e.g., shut down or reboot their phones.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#65

Post by lostgame »

George83728 wrote: post #52
lostgame wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store? (Pardon my ignorance, I’m an iOS dev and have been for a decade; I don’t really know the Android landscape.)

> So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store? Not necessarily, but that's the best way to do it. Between apps from F-Droid and a browser, you don't need any apps from the play store. Your bank doesn't have an app on F-Droid you might say? Well that's what the browser is for.

Ha. Your example is rather specific seeming to me, as I actually work on one of the big 5 Canadian banking iOS apps here in Toronto.

For obvious reasons; we don’t ship to alternate stores - even if such a thing as iOS sideloading existed; we wouldn’t support it, and we of course do not support anything but the Play Store on Android.

It’s obviously partly a support cost issue - there would be less than 1% of our millions of users using F-Droid, etc - and, more importantly; it’s a security and support issue.

I think for a while we even had some sort of check that would detect a jailbroken iPhone or rooted Android device and attempted to refuse to run on them. Security is so far above the #1 priority working in banking it’s insane. We’d never consider anything outside of Apple or Google’s official solutions. We actually have real life contacts at Apple to help address specific security or approval concerns; which is practically unheard of.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#66

Post by solarkraft »

j1elo wrote: post #48
pbasista wrote: post #38

> connect the device to the Internet before they are allowed to install the operating system they want Phoning home before undertaking such an activity takes away the ownership rights from the customers. They do not actually own these devices even after they have purchased them. The reason is that an important part of their ownership rights, i.e. the freedom to use the software of their choice, has been withheld from…

Xiaomi does the same (or at least did until my latest phone change i.e. around 3 years ago). You must unlock the bootloader before being able to install a custom recovery image such as TWRP, which itself is used to install custom ROMs. This unlock involves: creating a user account in the Xiaomi services website, logging into that account from your phone's system, then having the phone logged in for at least 7 days ,…

The wait time differs based on the device. I had to wait a week until I could use my Pocophone F1.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#67

Post by mindslight »

George83728 wrote: post #52
lostgame wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store? (Pardon my ignorance, I’m an iOS dev and have been for a decade; I don’t really know the Android landscape.)

> So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store? Not necessarily, but that's the best way to do it. Between apps from F-Droid and a browser, you don't need any apps from the play store. Your bank doesn't have an app on F-Droid you might say? Well that's what the browser is for.

Erm, why would you ever want an app for your bank on your mobile phone? So that when you get mugged, it can turn into a kidnapping?

I use some bank apps because they're quicker than the websites. But I do this with a cheap Nexus 7 tablet that stays at home with a label saying "full take" stuck to the top to remind me to not trust it with any sensitive information.

Segregating apps onto different devices is the way to go to protect yourself from corporate malware.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#68

Post by dingledork69 »

LiamPowell wrote: post #33
dingledork69 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like "you don't get to own your device"

This is correct, people generally don't get to own a device provided by their employer. Not allowing the bootloader to be unlocked on company-owned devices seems like a very desirable feature.

Even if you buy it yourself you don't get to own it before having google bless your device, which you can only hope they will.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#69

Post by dingledork69 »

mlyle wrote: post #32
dingledork69 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just sounds like "you don't get to own your device"

You get to "own your device" after you connect it to the internet once, to make sure it's not pre-provisioned for enterprise use.

So you don't own it when you buy it. At best Google still owns it and they graciously allow you permission to change the bootloader after you submit to their terms of service. Also, better hope their servers are online and reachable, and that you have functional internet.

Re: Pixel phones are sold with bootloader unlocking disabled

#70

Post by logifail »

lostgame wrote: post #65
George83728 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I’m guessing with this you’d use an alternative store like F-Droid instead of the Play Store? Not necessarily, but that's the best way to do it. Between apps from F-Droid and a browser, you don't need any apps from the play store. Your bank doesn't have an app on F-Droid you might say? Well that's what the browser is for.

Ha. Your example is rather specific seeming to me, as I actually work on one of the big 5 Canadian banking iOS apps here in Toronto. For obvious reasons; we don’t ship to alternate stores - even if such a thing as iOS sideloading existed; we wouldn’t support it, and we of course do not support anything but the Play Store on Android. It’s obviously partly a support cost issue - there would be less than 1% of our milli…

> rooted Android device

(I'm sure I'm missing the obvious here) but why are you happy to have customers log in using a browser on a device they fully control, yet not do the same using your app on a device they fully control?

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