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Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

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Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#61

Post by algoatecorn »

t-writescode wrote: post #43
algoatecorn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be intellectually honest here. It's not victim blaming to point out that "can't" isn't reasonable language. Life is hard. Doesn't mean we "can't" have some control over these variables. As I said, there are edge cases that deserve sympathy but they don't represent the bulk of scenarios.

> there are edge cases that deserve sympathy but they don't represent the bulk of scenarios. You say this, but you also say, "Most of that 70% has enough control of these factors to reap their benefits" 70% and "most of 70%" are still either a majority or at the very least a plurality; so, I have to strongly disagree that they don't represent the bulk of the scenarios. Is your argument that most people are lazy and s…

Within that 70%, most of them can:

- Afford to eat healthier foods. Rice, potatoes, bell peppers, onions, lentils, ground beef, pork chops, eggs, are not expensive. Time is a bigger factor but I don't buy the time argument in most cases either. Just need to prioritize.

- Improve their sleep. Most people have terrible sleep habits and there is a load of free information available for anyone who wants to make a positive change.

- Exercise. Walking 30 minutes each day yields most of the available benefit. Strength training is also available for most of the population. A secondhand kettlebell is like 20 dollars. Calisthenics are free. Some gym memberships go as low as 10/month.

>Is your argument that most people are lazy and should suck it up and get over it and fix themselves?

If you want to phrase it that way in order to paint me as the bad guy, then sure. But I would prefer to start with not giving up personal responsibility. Not throwing our hands up and blaming externalities, big food, and big pharma. If someone has that attitude, what hope do they have? Do you not believe in empowering people? If we validate every single persons' victim card, they will eventually believe they have no control over their lives. And that's just not true.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#62

Post by sysadmindotfail »

pengaru wrote: post #23
lockhouse wrote: post #4

Diet, exercise, enough sleep, and a good social support structure are pretty much the keys to good health in general. The fact that we have so many health issues in western society are because its so easy to neglect these things.

"Social support structure" is often at odds with diet, exercise, and enough sleep.

Life is a series of endless choices.

I recently ran a 24hr relay. There were absolutely those who drank/partied while they participated. They posted slower times and probably slept less. I didn't sleep as much as usual (because I was waking up to run every 6hrs), but I slept more, didn't party, ran faster than them.

Neither of us was right/wrong in our choices. I would have felt like crap if I had their habits, but maybe it doesn't affect them.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#63

Post by derac »

t-writescode wrote: post #43
algoatecorn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be intellectually honest here. It's not victim blaming to point out that "can't" isn't reasonable language. Life is hard. Doesn't mean we "can't" have some control over these variables. As I said, there are edge cases that deserve sympathy but they don't represent the bulk of scenarios.

> there are edge cases that deserve sympathy but they don't represent the bulk of scenarios. You say this, but you also say, "Most of that 70% has enough control of these factors to reap their benefits" 70% and "most of 70%" are still either a majority or at the very least a plurality; so, I have to strongly disagree that they don't represent the bulk of the scenarios. Is your argument that most people are lazy and s…

I don't think lazy is the best framing. I do think most people have bad habits around sleep, diet, and exercise. It's difficult to change these habits even if you have a good mentor, which most people don't. It's also very human to ignore advice and take the path of least resistance.

I have been in that place myself for most of my life and for able-bodied people it is possible to get 150 minites of low-intensity excercise a week, more sun, leafy greens, a can of sardines each day, and such low-effort interventions which have a high impact on health and well-being.

My advice to those people would be to start slow and not beat yourself up about having a milkshake and such. It takes time to build habits and good habits tend to cascade and encourage you, especially when you are happier with what you see in the mirror.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#64

Post by lukemercado »

orev wrote: post #51
ActorNightly wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its even simpler. Exercise (specifically, aerobic type) is the main thing you need. A good exercise regime gives you a lot of leeway in the diet aspect especially if you don't overeat (since your caloric burn will be high enough on the regular to not have to deal with issues like too much carbs). It also helps you sleep as you get tired and can fall asleep easier, and reduces stress levels, which is very important in…

You can’t outrun a bad diet. It takes a lot of exercise to burn off excess calories, and virtually no effort to simply not consume them. I understand that health is more than just calories, and you can come to the same conclusion about other bad things like trans fats, alcohol, etc. If someone had to choose only one thing to do for health, a healthy diet is far more important than exercise.

> It takes a lot of exercise to burn off excess calories, and virtually no effort to simply not consume them.

> and virtually no effort to simply not consume them.

I don't think this is true. The executive function required to manage the dopamine cycle that food generates is incredibly taxing. I honestly think this is a result of our food systems being incredibly optimized to drive purchasing decisions...

Separately, this reminds me that I should eat some veggies.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#65

Post by Freeaqingme »

make3 wrote: post #8

It would be nice if we could find what triggers the body's improved condition when doing exercise, and trigger it maximally without having to do hours of repetitive nonsense. It's fine if you like to do it, but a lot of us obviously don't. I wonder how the progress is going in this sphere.

I understand where you're coming from. Recently I read someone saying that "it's just like brushing your teeth, it's what your body requires in order to keep functioning properly".

That rang a bell with me. After all, I suppose pretty much everyone on HN brushes their teeth at least twice a day. That's also something that you need to build into your routine, somehow.

The same goes for exercise. If you build up routines that involve exercise, then it should become easier over time as habits are formed.

Something that doesn't help in that regard is cities where car use is almost unavoidable for basic stuff. Ideally, you'd live somewhere where schools and shops are near the places where people live, and the streets are designed so it's safe to walk or cycle. Then you could get some exercise simply by dropping off the children at school or doing some grocery shopping. Street design also isn't some natural phenomenon but something that city councils can make conscious decisions on, so none of it is a given.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#66

Post by Waterluvian »

lockhouse wrote: post #4

Diet, exercise, enough sleep, and a good social support structure are pretty much the keys to good health in general. The fact that we have so many health issues in western society are because its so easy to neglect these things.

And you don't need a gym membership or expensive equipment or any training for exercise. Even a tiny amount can make a huge difference.

If you're currently doing no exercise, try to walk five minutes at lunch time each day. Just five minutes. And when that's trivial to do, make it 10 minutes. Try to keep increasing this over the year. No rush. Take your time. But try to make it a habit. Even if some days it's back down to just 5 minutes.

If you're walking even just 15 minutes a day when you weren't before, you will be so much better off in ways that will be apparent. You might find that you feel happier, more alert, in a better mood overall. You might sleep a bit better. etc.

I'm not saying that a 15 min walk is a panacea that will cure all ills, but it's a multivitamin that works.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#67

Post by wyldberry »

markus_zhang wrote: post #10
lockhouse wrote: post #4

Diet, exercise, enough sleep, and a good social support structure are pretty much the keys to good health in general. The fact that we have so many health issues in western society are because its so easy to neglect these things.

These are luxuries, not mandatories. That's why many people don't get them. They can't. I absolutely can't.

They are not luxuries. Modern society has just made it easy to neglect these things for various reasons. The lies we tell ourselves about it not mandatory until you burn out or need medical intervention.

Modern medicine will provide various interventions to help out such as trying to balance your brain chemistry, lowering obesity, blood pressure, etc. Many of the things prescribed to us today are due to lifestyle choices.

There's a growing corpus of evidence that diet has incredible potential for treating serious brain disorders (when done with a psychiatrist, especially if you're already medicated)[0].

At the end of the day, you are the only person who sets the priorities in your life. If you don't make maintenance of your body and mind a priority, the bill will come later.

[0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61129785-brain-energy

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#68

Post by matwood »

orev wrote: post #51
ActorNightly wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its even simpler. Exercise (specifically, aerobic type) is the main thing you need. A good exercise regime gives you a lot of leeway in the diet aspect especially if you don't overeat (since your caloric burn will be high enough on the regular to not have to deal with issues like too much carbs). It also helps you sleep as you get tired and can fall asleep easier, and reduces stress levels, which is very important in…

You can’t outrun a bad diet. It takes a lot of exercise to burn off excess calories, and virtually no effort to simply not consume them. I understand that health is more than just calories, and you can come to the same conclusion about other bad things like trans fats, alcohol, etc. If someone had to choose only one thing to do for health, a healthy diet is far more important than exercise.

I agree, but we need to stop with the one thing. A decent diet is important, and so is cardio. And, so is strength. A person will lose a % of muscle/strength each year after age 50 or so. The higher base you start with the more strength a person will have as they get older, which helps prevent falls and other old age issues.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#69

Post by Wonnk13 »

borbulon wrote: post #36
lockhouse wrote: post #4

Diet, exercise, enough sleep, and a good social support structure are pretty much the keys to good health in general. The fact that we have so many health issues in western society are because its so easy to neglect these things.

I was walking 10+ miles every day when I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung Cancer, which means it was growing pretty much the entire time I was exercising. It’s not just Diet, exercise and sleep (and proper eating). Some of it is just plain luck.

34 year old triathlete here: colon cancer spread from my colon to my lung. That said, I do think continuing to do some amount of exercise during chemo definitely helped me recover, if not just stay sane mentally.

I'm about to have surgery to remove part of the lung and tumor and my surgeon/oncology team is making me wear a fitbit for three months to study my recovery.

Re: Exercise increases number of immune cells in cancer patients

#70

Post by make3 »

algoatecorn wrote: post #34
make3 wrote: post #8

It would be nice if we could find what triggers the body's improved condition when doing exercise, and trigger it maximally without having to do hours of repetitive nonsense. It's fine if you like to do it, but a lot of us obviously don't. I wonder how the progress is going in this sphere.

But exercise yields more benefit than just cancer prevention. Don't you want to maintain strength and mobility as you age? Sleep better? Build mental and physical resilience? I'll wager that we won't see a substitution for exercise and its benefits. Ever. It's just part of human life, and embracing it is by far the healthiest mindset.

I'm saying, all of these. Why are they "body moving fast" activated?
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