Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs • Hacker News Board

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#61

Post by rubatuga » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

nly wrote: post #60

prashnts wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but at home I would like to connect to my WiFi, with my preferences and access to my local network. The last time I was forced to use a common access point was in my dorm at the university, and even then I bought a small travel router to rebroadcast the AP. But I do understand what you mean. I guess one thing to do is to set the router to not broadcast at full power, and use 5GHz to limit the range.

My old apartment (built to rent) had a pretty sweet scheme. You connected to a shared WiFi network throughout the building and was put in VLAN 0 with all the other unauthenticated devices, but once you signed in (captive portal) you were bumped in to your own private VLAN and you could only see / connect to your other devices. The only downside was any device where it wasn't convenient to login to the captive portal…

But what if you spoof the MAC address?

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#62

Post by netsharc » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 10:42 PM UTC

rjh29 wrote: post #57

Liambp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"when my mobile net has run out"? Are Japanese mobile networks stuck in the 2010s? In Europe unlimited (or at as near as makes no difference) data has become so ubiquitous that public wifi is more or less redundant.

So I bought a 16GB 6-month tourist sim, and somehow run it out, probably by drunkenly making video calls / using YouTube without realising I wasn't connected to wifi. I think there are unlimited or huge (30GB/month) sims available for non-tourists. A lot of households use 4G as their main internet source via a dongle!

The dongles have weekly limits too, I think. I remember staying in an AirBnB that came with a 4G dongle for the guest, but the week's quota had been spent by the previous guest.

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#63

Post by marak830 » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 10:47 PM UTC

rjh29 wrote: post #57

Liambp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"when my mobile net has run out"? Are Japanese mobile networks stuck in the 2010s? In Europe unlimited (or at as near as makes no difference) data has become so ubiquitous that public wifi is more or less redundant.

So I bought a 16GB 6-month tourist sim, and somehow run it out, probably by drunkenly making video calls / using YouTube without realising I wasn't connected to wifi. I think there are unlimited or huge (30GB/month) sims available for non-tourists. A lot of households use 4G as their main internet source via a dongle!

I have 60GB a month on my phone, at home we recently switched from a wired 2Gb/unlimited connection to a 5g/unlimited connection. (This is in Japan btw).

There are many options for non-tourists.

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#64

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 10:50 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #31

> If this all scales, NTT estimates Tokyo won't need to add any more Wi-Fi access points or private 5G cells, even as demand for connectivity increases. Thus achieving the dream of all telcos: Charging people without delivering any service whatsoever!

[deleted]

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#65

Post by fomine3 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 12:15 AM UTC

Here's original PR article: https://group.ntt/en/newsrelease/2023/04/26/230426a.html

Still I don't know how blockchain useful.

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#66

Post by fomine3 » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 12:17 AM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #30

I live in a high-density multi-family apartment block. 300 families in a small space. There are probably at least 300 SSIDs being broadcast in this area, plus Bluetooth and other noise. This is a low-income joint, so amenities are comparatively minimal, but there's just no excuse for not forging a deal with one of the local ISPs and having their WiFi/Ethernet to blanket the property, convincing residents to shut thei…

What I want for a "High-Speed Internet!" apartment is a wired internet. Just use my own 5GHz or 6GHz AP.

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#67

Post by yoavm » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:41 AM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #25

yoavm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how it works on iPhone, but on Android you can easily get a new mac address and get additional 20 minutes. Settings > Developer Options > Wi-Fi non-persistent MAC randomization. Then just forget the network and reconnect.

I don't know how it's managed on your phone, but I get an option per WiFi network on my phone to control whether I use a random MAC address or a my phone's.

Yes, but AFAIK by default (Android) it will use the same random MAC address for each network. I think it is randomly generated based on the SSID, unless you tick the aforementioned option.

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#68

Post by yoavm » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:41 AM UTC

ranger_danger wrote: post #42

yoavm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how it works on iPhone, but on Android you can easily get a new mac address and get additional 20 minutes. Settings > Developer Options > Wi-Fi non-persistent MAC randomization. Then just forget the network and reconnect.

If the backend to their hotspot system uses any kind of fingerprinting scheme, changing the MAC won't help you.

What kind of fingerprinting scheme? I have never seen this on any network.

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#69

Post by yoavm » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 7:42 AM UTC

accrual wrote: post #39

circuit10 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS has “Private Wi-Fi Address” which I think is the same thing

The feature creates a MAC address for each access point and rotates them after 6 weeks without joining. It would be interesting to collect some of these and see if they have anything in common - same OUI, or from a group of OUIs, or totally random, etc. > Starting with iOS 14, iPadOS 14, and watchOS 7, your device improves privacy by using a different MAC address for each Wi-Fi network. This unique MAC address is you…

So if it takes 6 weeks of wait, I guess this iOS feature isn't very useful for getting 20 minutes extra...

Re: Tokyo has 20 times as much WiFi as it needs

#70

Post by em-bee » Fri, Apr 28, 2023, 11:01 AM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #48

oefrha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> convincing residents to shut their personal ones down in favor of a robust replacement. You would soon be looking at oopsies like mirroring onto someone else’s TV, or a bored teenager hacking into everyone else’s “smart” Internet of Shit devices. WPA2 personal just isn’t secure for shared residential use.

I know it's far from perfect. But there has got to be an answer for it. Because everyone running their own WAP is a massive duplication of resources, it's literally a waste of power citywide, every's got a separate ISP bill, and it's clogging the airwaves, making everyone's reception quite lousy in the process. Multi-family apartments have communal services on purpose. We have a central A/C chiller. We have communal…

the "solution" is most likely that a shared wifi will be good enough for 90% of the people, and the 10% of us that want to do something different will still get to run our own access-points.

the problem i see is the placement of access points so that they can be maintained without entering peoples homes but still reach every room.