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Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

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Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#61

Post by samstave »

exhilaration wrote: post #6

I'm curious, is there a list somewhere of these world-changing industrial espionage incidents? Here's two more I remember off the top of my head. Not sure why the top results are the Smithsonian Magazine but here are some links: Samuel Slater brings cotton mill technology to America in 1789: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-industrial-esp... Robert Fortune learns Chinese tea production methods and brings…

I cant recall where you can see footage, maybe on the documentary "Murder Mountain" where they talk about smuggling Cannabis seeds from Afghanistan to California in the 1960s or 1970s by sewing the seeds into the edge-trimming-folds of (wallets?) to get the seeds into the US... then creating cannabis farms in mendocino county california...

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#62

Post by nsajko »

ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

> senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was celibate people

Ralph Nader comes to mind.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#63

Post by ginko »

epilys wrote: post #55
kmlx wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one random tidbit that struck me was that the term "Byzantine Empire" was actually an invention from the 1500's. the "byzantine" people actually called themselves Romans, and the empire was called "Roman Empire".

They were the Roman Empire. The distinction we make today is mainly of two reasons: - In the East side of the empire, Constantine, the Roman emperor who moved the capital to Byzantium ("New Rome") was half-Greek, and the Greek element in the East meant this half of the Roman Empire had a stronger Greek ethnic presence. - In the West side, the local Roman elite along with newly arrived Germanic peoples (the Franks) we…

Well that and that the city of Rome wasn't part of it.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#64

Post by bjackman »

infamia wrote: post #46

Byzantine history is interesting and vastly underappreciated (IMO). If you'd like to learn a bit more, the "12 Byzantine Rulers" podcast is a good place to start. It starts off a touch stiff, but loosens up and is great overall. https://12byzantinerulers.com/

I can also recommend the History of Byzantium podcast for anyone that wants to to extremely deep into the timeline.

I've listened to all 265 episodes so far, and I'm still thrilled every time a new one comes out!

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#65

Post by Jun8 »

ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

AFAIK, an important reason eunuchs were preferred as generals and high officials is because a person who was castrated or had any other deformity could not be emperor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_mutilation_in_Byzant...) Exceptions did occur, e.g. Justinian II, but rare. It was also common practice to castrate sons of deposed emperors.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#66

Post by cubefox »

Perhaps a naive question: What was so special about silk? It seems it was just a luxury article for the rich. I assume unlike today, not many people had a lot of disposable income to spend on luxury products. So I don't understand how silk could have been economically relevant compared to other non-luxury goods.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#67

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #60
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, the Ottomans very mighty sophisticated. They just didn't know how to build cities, so they took other peoples'. Orthodox? Which kind? I grew up Greek Orthodox but then I grew up more atheist.

I'm american and my parents were converts so I don't think of myself as being particularly affiliated with any of the ethnic jurisdictions. I usually just find a parish where I like the people and the services are in english. Often that's OCA (russian-tinged american) but in the past it has been serbian or greek. As you're probably aware it's all technically the same church so there's no barrier or ritual to changing…

Thanks, I don't really know the customs of the other Orthodox churches, but they are different organisations. I don't know them well, by any means. I'm reading about them on wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Orthodox_Churches

Apparently there are six Oriental Orthodox churches that are all "autocephalous" (i.e. they do their own thing). I think the Russians and Serbians are closer to the Greek church in custom.

And btw, that's why I asked. The Orthodox Greek diaspora are probably the largest group of Orthodox Christians outside Russia, but I was just curious.

Somehow I also find it curious that your parents were converts to an Orthodox church. I didn't think that happened. If I may pry, what were they converted from?

I'm Greek, btw.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#68

Post by Jun8 »

It seems there's a lot of interest for Byzantine History on HN, that's fantastic! My friends and I have run a book club for the past four years on Ancient History with focus on the Eastern Roman Empire.

Most books we read were kind of dry. Here's a list of books I found readable and engaging if you want to delve deeper:

* Byzantium trilogy by Norwich. If you don't want to get all three, I suggest getting The Apogee (2nd volume). Fantastically readable and solid historical work with a generous side of gossip.

* Alexiad by Anna Komnene. Written around 1140 after Anna was deposed to a convent, this biography of her father, Alexios, has an immediacy that history books cannot match. The end will probably bring you to tears.

* Anecdota (Secret History) by Procopius. For pure titillation factor cannot be beat! Severe attack against Justinian, Theodora, Belisaurus, and his wife Antonina. "Severe" is an understamenet really, here's Procopius on Theodora's depraved youth:

  On the field of pleasure she was never defeated. Often she would go picnicking with ten young men or more, in the flower of their strength and virility, and dallied with them all, the whole night through. When they wearied of the sport, she would approach their servants, perhaps thirty in number, and fight a duel with each of these; and even thus found no allayment of her craving. Once, visiting the house of an illustrious gentleman, they say she mounted the projecting corner of her dining couch, pulled up the front of her dress, without a blush, and thus carelessly showed her wantonness. And though she flung wide three gates to the ambassadors of Cupid, she lamented that nature had not similarly unlocked the straits of her bosom, that she might there have contrived a further welcome to his emissaries.
So, she fit the full Messalina archetype. Full text available at Fordham (https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/procop-anec.asp). Here's an interesting paper on the depiction of Theodora in the Secret History (https://www.mcgill.ca/classics/files/classics/2004-09.pdf)

* Chronographia by Michael Psellos covers the reigns of 14 emperors and empresses in a 100 time period

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#69

Post by epilys »

ginko wrote: post #63
epilys wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were the Roman Empire. The distinction we make today is mainly of two reasons: - In the East side of the empire, Constantine, the Roman emperor who moved the capital to Byzantium ("New Rome") was half-Greek, and the Greek element in the East meant this half of the Roman Empire had a stronger Greek ethnic presence. - In the West side, the local Roman elite along with newly arrived Germanic peoples (the Franks) we…

Well that and that the city of Rome wasn't part of it.

Ethnonym versus toponym; they are not the same.

Re: Smuggling of silkworm eggs into the Byzantine Empire

#70

Post by bigbillheck »

ptsneves wrote: post #21

Byzantine history is so important to understand the modern world. It gives us the context for the orthodox/west divide; it gives us an example of a economic and intellectual superpower needing to live with the realities of barbarian neighbors, and being destroyed! It shows us great statecraft lasting a thousand years. It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs and how the next best thing was…

> It even shows us why generals and senior civil servants were eunuchs

The place the Byzantines got those eggs from tried that too, didn't always work out too great in terms of stability and good governance, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Attendants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zong_Ai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Tigers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei_Zhongxian

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