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French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

theguardian.com

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Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#61

Post by orra »

toyg wrote: post #45
cm2187 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absence of a strong constitution protecting fundamental rights is also an issue. With a 50%+1 majority, the house of commons can vote pretty much any law it wants with no counterpower.

The British system is, indeed, fundamentally insane, from a technical perspective. They nerfed aristocratic power by neutering the House of Lords, but didn't bother replacing it with some other check or balance, leaving the Commons all-powerful - and with an electoral system that disproportionately favours cohesive ideologic minorities. Ironically, this was largely done by self-declared leftists, who utterly failed t…

> Ironically, this was largely done by self-declared leftists

Eh, the Parliament Act 1911 was passed by a Liberal Government.

> who utterly failed to anticipate how fascism could easily manifest through such a system.

The Liberal Party, and its successor the Liberal Democrats, has long been in favour of electoral reform.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#62

Post by teawrecks »

abridgett wrote: post #27

It's even worse - under RIP act not only can you be "forced" to reveal any passwords: - the onus is on _you_ to "prove" that you don't know it or have forgotten it - you can be told not to reveal that you've told them the password Anyone administering systems might want to think about this, governments aren't known for good security.

this is exactly the purpose of the 5th amendment in the US. the only thing I don't agree with is the supreme court's decision that you have to deliberately invoke your 5th amendment. so much for inalienable rights...

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#63

Post by louloulou »

jmclnx wrote: post #48
sph wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well shit, this was my reason not to ever visit the US, but I live in Britain so I'm fucked anyway.

I wish I could laugh, seems the US, UK and Australia are in a competition to see who can out do each other. What is it with English Speaking Countries ? I guess Canada is OK because of Quebec keeps them sane :)

Canada has the same shit, NZ too.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#64

Post by namdnay »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #40
PeterisP wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're probably treating it the same as refusing to open a safe given a valid warrant; the rights against self-incrimination do not extend to protecting the contents of your safe, drawers, private letters, etc, and also to the contents of your smartphone.

See, but if you refused to open a safe for the cops, their fallback would be to drill it, not incarcerate you for failure to disclose the combination. Under that precedence, the cops have the right to try and crack my phone's encryption, but not to compel me to give them my passwords.

Because they have a fallback. I presume that if someone were to invent an uncrackable safe they would adopt the same stance as encryption

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#65

Post by jussaying2 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #29
macinjosh wrote: post #7

Western democracies are falling into authoritarian behavior at a remarkable rate. I am legit worried.

I guess to be fair, there always has been an authoritarian bent to Western democracies. It's just that most of us here on HN are not members of the groups against which those democracies employ authoritarian practices. It just kind of shows you why you have to stand up as soon as you see a practice or law that's F'ed up. It's pretty much a guarantee that on a time-scale long enough, that government will use that prac…

Even better, the folks who frequent HN could stop aiding authoritarianism by building the tech, but that would require turning down lucrative RSUs, so I'm not holding my breath.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#66

Post by blibble »

orra wrote: post #61
toyg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British system is, indeed, fundamentally insane, from a technical perspective. They nerfed aristocratic power by neutering the House of Lords, but didn't bother replacing it with some other check or balance, leaving the Commons all-powerful - and with an electoral system that disproportionately favours cohesive ideologic minorities. Ironically, this was largely done by self-declared leftists, who utterly failed t…

> Ironically, this was largely done by self-declared leftists Eh, the Parliament Act 1911 was passed by a Liberal Government. > who utterly failed to anticipate how fascism could easily manifest through such a system. The Liberal Party, and its successor the Liberal Democrats, has long been in favour of electoral reform.

and the RIP Act was passed by a Labour government

(and the Terrorism Act)

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#67

Post by ornel »

According to this tweet[0] citing a (locked) article, the arrested publisher was asked by police "Do you support president Macron? Have you participated in the recent demonstrations in France? What books will soon be published by La Fabrique?". Scary stuff

[0] https://twitter.com/Mathieu2jean/status/1648394577449984014

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#68

Post by GuB-42 »

phnofive wrote: post #2

The legal system in the UK recognizes several rights against self-incrimination, but there is a carve-out for the per se crime of failing to disclose a key to encrypted information - punishable by years in prison. How is this different than refusing to tell where you've buried the bodies? Why should the police be permitted to assume you're guilty and in possession of vital information under certain circumstances?

It doesn't seem to be about self-incrimination.

The way I understand it, they don't accuse him of being a terrorist, they are accusing him of having information about terrorists and refusing to release them. To follow your analogy, the police doesn't think you are the murderer, but they believe you know the location of the bodies and accuse you of covering for the murderer.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#69

Post by negidius »

blibble wrote: post #59
negidius wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stress of being arrested and threatened with years in prison if you don't remember your passcode could very well cause someone to forget it.

the thing is it's not incontrovertible proof, it's "beyond reasonable doubt" the prosecution would show up with when you bought the phone, how many times you'd used it, that you used it 80 times in the last hour, and so on and it comes down to whether or not a jury would believe that you had really forgotten it (despite that evidence)

Which means that someone who forgets their passcode because of the stress of being arrested and threatened with years in prison could easily be wrongfully convicted. It's a horrible law, even for those who don't care about privacy.

Re: French publisher arrested in London for refusal to tell police his passcodes

#70

Post by phpisthebest »

andy_ppp wrote: post #22
toyg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the memory of truly oppressive governments in Western Europe has faded. People who don't remember history, are doomed to repeat it.

I do wonder if the masses always end up voting in fascists every 50 years or so simply because they forgot that there were some things worth fighting for. Does it feel like to anyone else we are on the precipice of extremely big changes that might not be good for anyone?

Strauss–Howe generational theory holds that upheaval or major crisis (like a world war) occurs every 80-100 years

If that holds true the next fews years are going to be interesting

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