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There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

toolguyd.com

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Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#61

Post by simondotau »

taeric wrote: post #12
h2odragon wrote: post #4

I want backpack battery packs for the bigger power users. Chainsaws and weed whackers and stuff in the gas engine range anyway. For smaller tools there could sensibly be a couple to 4? perhaps sizes of battery pack, "handheld" for screwdriver to toothbrush to "personal manipulation tools", a bit bigger for handheld drills; double that again for small saws and stuff... any bigger and it begins to become an an unwieldy…

The "egopower" vendor has some good products in this vein. I suspect others are catching up or passing them, but I've been very happy with the mower we have. The blower goes through the battery faster than anything else. But I'm very very grateful not to have gas in the garage for this. Even more grateful to no longer be mixing oil into gas to get these things to work.

It’s also very occasionally handy to be able to use the leaf blower indoors, which is a non-starter if it’s gas powered.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#62

Post by Nullabillity »

halestock wrote: post #5

Vendor lock-in. If I buy a Makita drill that comes with a universal battery, I'm just as likely (all other things being equal) to buy a DeWalt or Milwaukee circular saw as another Makita. But if my drill batteries only work with Makita products, I have a big incentive to stick with that brand.

The question isn't why the manufacturers try to pull this garbage, but why they are allowed to.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#63

Post by StrangeATractor »

bombcar wrote: post #57
StrangeATractor wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a secret in construction, you buy one brand of cordless tools and stick with it. DeWalt sells tools so cheap you wonder if they're a loss leader. A single battery (one of the big 60V, 12Ah ones you use for circular saws and angle grinders) is $285 on Amazon. The biggest cordless circular is $178, the biggest grinder is $163. You'll want at least two of those batteries per day if you're doing any serious wo…

It's not quite as cut and dried as that, but it's getting closer as the brands expand. My contractor friend would refer to various tools as the "Brand" because he had one cordless tool from that brand because they had the one he needed. "Go grab the Makita", that kind of thing. From my experience it's the prosumer market that gets really rabid about their tool color. Do NOT cross the Red Army!

There are exceptions depending on what you're doing, but generally speaking 95% of your cordless tools will be one brand.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#66

Post by rektide »

glasss wrote: post #26

First time seeing this blog and it seems like they're trying too hard to give the benefit of doubt here. The list of concerns / drawbacks, particularly the reliability of performance concern, may be valid, but consumers deal with these already with every other battery powered device. A cheap USB charger or cable can dramatically effect your charging speed, a cheap AA battery may reduce your runtime, etc. It feels lik…

The world after usb-pd looks so different. Everything used to be expensive bulky & proprietary.

It turns out usb-pd works pretty damned well.

It'll be a while before anything meaningful happens for this market though. 100w would power a huge range of tools but not all. 240w would be great, work for a huge range of tools with ton of overhead. But the lack probably has a much lower voltage that would need to be up-converted to 48v, then the power switching in the tool needs to handle higher voltage too (which I think is actually not a real concern, could actually help a lot).

But more obviously, it's a question of form factors. Tools have shapes that conform to & support their packs. USB doesn't have any kind of a play here right now, only defines a connector, cable & how data & power are to be transmitted.

It's hard to imagine getting out of this tar-pit. Whose going to start building more expensive packs that spit out standard 48v usb-pd? What hero would do that?

Side note, some day I'd really love to see a much higher amperage USB connector. Usb-d should be able to do like 30a, 1.5kW at 48v. Big ask, but it's one potential exciting frontier I hope "universal" extends into. My other ask is for a longer range 5+ gbps USB4, but that seems maybe potentially harder, I dunno.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#67

Post by RecycledEle »

Standard DC power connectors are long overdue. Let me suggest a few:

* USB-C (type A and type C) (but simplify the voltage selection and change the spec so it just supplies as many amps as it can)

* 12V 5.5x2.1mm barrel connectors

* 12V car accessory outlets

* 12V battery terminals

* 19V Dell laptop power connectors

* 48V Power Poles (originally made by Anderson) in various amperages

Lithium, rechargeable batteries should also be standardized:

* Nokia 1100 prismatic cell (still used in many wireless peripherals, and could work well in almost all A/V remote controls)

* 4AH lithium prismatic cell (for most cell phones)

* 18650 (single cell)

* 2-cell 18650 pack (pick any power tool battery and use that)

* 4-cell devices should use a pair of the 2-cell 18650 packs. Black and Decker made VPX power tools that did that many years ago.

* 5-cell lithium pack (maybe 18650 cells) Pick any power tool battery that has a flat top, meaning not my beloved Ryobi and use that. Then everyone can make adapters that add 1/2" to the height of the battery.

* 40V lithium battery pack (pick any one of the electric lawnmower types that can handle a lot fo amps and use that)

* Car-scale battery packs that are about 1 cubic foot, so that many of them can power your home or automobile

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#68

Post by taeric »

dgacmu wrote: post #21
taeric wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "egopower" vendor has some good products in this vein. I suspect others are catching up or passing them, but I've been very happy with the mower we have. The blower goes through the battery faster than anything else. But I'm very very grateful not to have gas in the garage for this. Even more grateful to no longer be mixing oil into gas to get these things to work.

I have an ego weed whacker and a leaf blower and I adore them. (still using a push mower but might give in some day). Not having to deal with gas is awesome. They're cleaner, they're quieter (but not quiet), and lower-maintainence. Not sure if something better came out in the last year, but as of the time I bought them, they were still pretty close to the top from my preference set.

I don't have their riding mower, but I can vouch for their push mowers. Surprisingly capable machine.

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#69

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

sgc wrote: post #60
NotYourLawyer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From TFA: > As many readers might be aware, you can find 3rd party battery adapters on Amazon, eBay, and other such marketplaces.

So, why is anybody arguing it is not just about lock in, when their specs are similar enough that they are interchangeable - more a rarity than the norm in the realm of electronics? It is a pertinent thing to point out, since if the tools work just fine using each other's batteries, any other answer rings hollow in light of it. So, please don't TFA me, it is unsavory and adds absolutely nothing to the conversation.

The Torque Test Channel has done several tests with a single tool using different batteries, comparing (usually) the torque the tool can produce with each. E.g. this[1] with a DeWalt impact driver.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZE86NFG4M

Re: There’s no universal cordless power tool battery – why?

#70

Post by anfilt »

orthoxerox wrote: post #27
halestock wrote: post #5

Vendor lock-in. If I buy a Makita drill that comes with a universal battery, I'm just as likely (all other things being equal) to buy a DeWalt or Milwaukee circular saw as another Makita. But if my drill batteries only work with Makita products, I have a big incentive to stick with that brand.

Makita batteries are probably what counts as the de facto universal battery format in East Asia. Lots of brands off AliExpress are compatible with each other and Makita batteries.

Also Makita is one of the few truly independent power tool companies that is not some big conglomerate. (Still a big company though)

Also unlike some other tool manufactures they still sell all the models of batteries for all the cordless tools from the late 1970's to today. They were the first company to make cordless power tools too. I just find it crazy they still sell batteries for tools getting almost 50 years old.

-edit (added a link)- These batteries are brand new and will work in a makita tool made in 1978. https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/B7000-B-10

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