We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed • Hacker News Board

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#61

Post by bluGill » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:13 PM UTC

anaganisk wrote: post #56

carlmr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also a liability issue. If a company allows tinkering with the software in the car it opens itself up to massive lawsuits. If we have a right to repair here, we also need to see how to handle liability here. If you flash your own software on the motor controller and subsequently mow through a group of people because you forgot to do a plausibility check on the accelerator pedal value who takes responsibility the…

Lol, this is absolute funny, every example you came up with has already been there for years. Aren't cars being modded every day, ECU tuning, engine mods, etc? Go ahead sue the company, companies aren't some innocent babies, they can afford to quickly dismiss the claim by just pointing towards the mod. Auto Companies have never been held liable for a car that has been modded. Does it waste money to be sued? Yes! But…

The EPA has suggested they will hold companies liable in the future. It hasn't happened yet, but they are hinting. If it is just one hobbyist they don't care, but there is a whole industry of chip your diesel truck and those chips clearly increase pollution. A modern diesel truck doesn't emit black smoke, but a large % of the diesel trucks you see are "rolling coal" which is a sure sign that someone has disabled the emissions controls.

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#62

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:14 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #3

> If the backup camera or other sensors were to run as containers, we needed to improve the starting speed significantly. I think I see the problem already. Why does anyone think its a good idea to put everything in an embedded system into a container? Particularly as everything comes from a single vendor and so the usual argument about "but libraries are too hard!" doesn't apply.

[deleted]

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#63

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #3

> If the backup camera or other sensors were to run as containers, we needed to improve the starting speed significantly. I think I see the problem already. Why does anyone think its a good idea to put everything in an embedded system into a container? Particularly as everything comes from a single vendor and so the usual argument about "but libraries are too hard!" doesn't apply.

[deleted]

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#64

Post by bluGill » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:16 PM UTC

dtx1 wrote: post #11

hghid wrote: post #4

I'm all for improvements to pod startup times etc, but the general idea of putting more software into cars is not that appealing. I recently broke down in the highlands of Scotland in a fairly new car with the family - it was a horrible experience. It was made worse by the fact that there was nobody close that had a clue what to do with the car. The breakdown service arrived promptly, plugged the diagnostic tool into…

That's imo a right to repair issue. We can build easily diagnosable and easily fixable hardware. Big Corps just don't

It should be, but right to repair is mostly not about diagnosis and repair. Instead you are seeing a bait and switch where someone wants to disable emissions controls and claims that is a repair.

What can a mechanic not do to a modern car with the standard scan tools and training? Most old school mechanics still lack the training to work on computers, but those that have that training have no problem fixing cars.

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#65

Post by miah_ » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:17 PM UTC

ilyt wrote: post #29

christophilus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sophistication and gadgets in modern cars are great until something goes wrong I'd go further than cars and say, "in most things". Smart-anything, washing machines, printers, sewing machines, thermostats, appliances in general... My mother in-law has two sewing machines. One of them is one of the first electronic sewing machines (from the 70s) and one is much older. Guess which one still works like a charm? I'm…

If something like that needs to be smart the smart part should basically be extra interface. Old printers did it right - separate extra box for all the connectivity working as print server. That breaks ? just connect it directly. But hey, feeding everything from single microcontroller is $2 cheaper...

I went to a "tech school" to learn computers while in High School in the 90's. The tech school also had classes for 'the trades', it was set up to prepare Michigan kids for careers (Careerline Tech IIRC).

Anyway. A big part of that class was learning to clean, repair, and manage printers. Again, it was the 90's, and we were high school kids. We came out quite capable with many computer skills but the printer stuff really stuck with me. I've done technical support throughout the years and have setup hundreds of printers.

The printers of today are awful landfill fodder compared to the Okidata's of the 90's. Pure simplicity and speed vs FULL COMPUTERS, with scanning, faxing, and every other imaginable feature crammed in with zero hope of doing anything other than replacing the toner.

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#66

Post by shrubble » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:18 PM UTC

So it was poorly thought out or poorly designed all this time, then they fixed the obvious errors? That was my impression after reading the article...

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#67

Post by xarope » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:20 PM UTC

tough wrote: post #42

VBprogrammer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, we were stuck in a carpark for 3 hours because the 2025 battery cell in our key remote went dead on a cold walk around a local lake. It's supposed to have a backup but, like most backups, I hadn't tested that it works and for some reason the RFID reader part wouldn't connect with the car.

Are 2025 battery cells batteries from the future?

assuming this is a cr2025 then most likely 20mm diameter and 2.5mm thick => 2025

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#68

Post by bluGill » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:20 PM UTC

andix wrote: post #8

GordonS wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing Devil's advocate here, but there are some good reasons you might do this. For example, Docker's "pull" system is great for updates, and means it's trivial to rollback to an earlier version if something went wrong. A Docker registry also means you can easily switch to another version when needed. You also get a supervision of containers, with automatic restarts (yes, I know you can do this nowadays with system…

Sure, but if you provide the possibility to deploy a lot of components separately, at some point they will run in different versions. And who knows if rear view camera 1.3.22-44 works with turn signal 4.86.233-stable and break pedal 0.6.9876-beta?

Those 3 for the most part don't have to work together. They need to run on the same CPU without taking more than their allowed portion of the CPU.

If they have to work together the communication protocol is clearly defined well in advanced and limited to exactly what they need to say. Thus we are reasonably sure if any one combination works all possible combinations will work. Even then there is typically higher level control to only release combinations that are tested to work together.

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#69

Post by galangalalgol » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #3

> If the backup camera or other sensors were to run as containers, we needed to improve the starting speed significantly. I think I see the problem already. Why does anyone think its a good idea to put everything in an embedded system into a container? Particularly as everything comes from a single vendor and so the usual argument about "but libraries are too hard!" doesn't apply.

Everything never comes from a single vendor. Even microcontrollers the hardware abstraction layer is hiding peripheral support packages for all the i2c and spi things it talks to, each from a different vendor potentially.

I'm not saying we should be running k8 on an 8051 or even a cortex m33, but on an arm7? Maybe.

Cult of Ferris time, static linking in rust means your binary is your container, particularly if you statically link in musl.

Re: We achieved a 6-fold increase in Podman startup speed

#70

Post by miah_ » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

Alifatisk wrote: post #14

hghid wrote: post #4

I'm all for improvements to pod startup times etc, but the general idea of putting more software into cars is not that appealing. I recently broke down in the highlands of Scotland in a fairly new car with the family - it was a horrible experience. It was made worse by the fact that there was nobody close that had a clue what to do with the car. The breakdown service arrived promptly, plugged the diagnostic tool into…

You said it so well, cars have become too bloated with software that barely any local mechanic would want to touch it. Happened to me and this is the major reason why I am slowly shifting to older cars, they are way easier and cheaper to repair.

Its not just software though, even the lights on your cars now are not easily user serviceable anymore. New cars with LED lights built in have core charges/deposits attached to them, they cost multiple hundreds of dollars and if you want to get your core deposit refund you must return the light. Compared to 15+ years ago, you go to your local store, buy a new light for $10-30, replace it and you're on your way.

Ford apparently ended the core charge program for lighting in 2020, but other manufactures continue, and that is just one thing that was common for users to service themselves in the past. It's not going to get better.