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What you give up by moving into engineering management

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Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#61

Post by InvaderFizz »

siquick wrote: post #51
fortissimohn wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may sound different, such as "That's a great question"

I worked for 5 years at an American company in Australia and I heard this multiple times per day from my US colleagues - my conclusion after heard it said to the most basic questions was that it’s mostly a filler phrase used to buy time while the respondent thinks up an answer.

Depends heavily on how it's said. If it's flat with no derivation from the previous sentences intonation, it is probably filler. If it intentionally stands out, it is probably not.

Personally, I use the phrase often as a Senior IC in a way that makes it clear it t is not filler. I also use phrases such as, "Hell if I know, let's google it and find out together."

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#62

Post by xvilka »

stn_za wrote: post #15
tra3 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a little dramatic. As a manager you deal with people. As an IC you also deal with people but to a smaller degree. If you can handle dealing with people you stand to make more money. It’s a job.

Luckily management is not the requirement for more money nowadays. Most Staff/Principle and even Senior engineers are on equal footing (and often more) with managers in terms of salary. At least in my country.

And it's good since often it requires far more skill than managing.

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#63

Post by brabel »

abtinf wrote: post #54
timellis-smith wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> You must believe deep down in your core that ordering a human being to do something is a sign you must introspect about your failure as a manager, and commit to fixing the problem. >This also just seems like new-age guilt injected into the work place. Don't be a micro manager always in people's faces for no reason but if you're telling yourself you're a failure because _as a manager_ you told someone to do somethi…

Seriously, no knows anything about parenting. Properly considered, it is the most difficult and intellectually challenging task conceivable. “Here, take this tabula rasa child and, over the course of many years, with virtually no timely feedback about the impact of any of your actions, raise a fully formed rational adult capable of effectively dealing with the problem of human survival on a planet incredibly hostile…

Most children grow up to be decent human beings despite parents having no clue. I don't think you can do much for them, they do it all by themselves... just don't destroy them by being a horrible person and treat them with respect, even knowing you have all the power in the relationship.

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#64

Post by [deleted] »

xvilka wrote: post #62
stn_za wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily management is not the requirement for more money nowadays. Most Staff/Principle and even Senior engineers are on equal footing (and often more) with managers in terms of salary. At least in my country.

And it's good since often it requires far more skill than managing.

[deleted]

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#65

Post by PeterisP »

latte wrote: post #43

The majority of the content and comments on HN tell about the benefits of remaining an IC and not moving into management. Why do people need to convince each other _not_ to move into management by content like this? To get a balanced view - what are the advantages of becoming a manager? What are the rewarding parts of managing people?

The obvious advantages are money and power.

In many organizations (but not nearly all!) going to management is a relatively straightforward way to get more compensation than at your IC position.

But what applies in most organizations is that if you want to have influence on what the organization does, how it does it, and how your product or service will behave, that influence is mostly given to the management - so if you stay as IC, you'll be implementing the vision of others, and if you want others to implement your vision (or even to have a seat at the table where that vision is decided), you need to be at a management role; if you want freedom and decision-making ability and self-actualization in your job, well, in many large organizations ICs get limited opportunities for it, you have to climb the hierarchy until your views start making an impact.

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#66

Post by irrational »

I have a good friend at the Fortune 100 company we work for who move into engineering management. He hated it. Unfortunately, he was very good at it so it took years for him to convince them to let him move back to an IC role. Even after that, they kept looking to him to make management level decisions, which he had to flat out refuse to do until they finally learned that he really was an IC again. It was so much stress trying to get back into an IC role that he has been looking for new jobs outside the company.

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#67

Post by theGnuMe »

abtinf wrote: post #19

The biggest thing most managers give up is their mind. You start using corporate jargon. You become more authoritarian. You embrace careerism (a term I invented to describe people who erroneously conflate rising in corporate rank with happiness). You quickly learn that no one understands anything about the people or the business--and that all decisions are made by gut, cherry picked data, and story-telling. Suddenly,…

"careerism" is well defined, no need to reinvent it.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/careerism

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#68

Post by RandomLensman »

alexanderscott wrote: post #14

surprisingly I didn’t see anything in here about managerial responsibilities of big decisions involving company $$. budgeting, vendor & contract negotiation, build vs buy, etc. I found this to be one of the starkest differences and all a bit unnerving when I made the transition from staff IC to manager. will say that having a good boss and mentor helped a lot with the feelings of imposter syndrome.

Depending on the place, this can all be "drowned out" by layers of processes, planning, consultants, etc.

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#69

Post by devnullbrain »

>Unfortunately, I also needed to unblock my team so that progress wouldn’t grind to a halt whenever I decided to work on a new feature. Eventually, I figured out that I couldn’t take on projects in the “critical path,”

This is a important lesson. As an IC, it's hugely frustrating to be blocked on your own work because the gatekeeper is busy working on something more important. If the manager is the only person you can trust with the important work, something is broken.

There's just not enough time in the day to do 8 hours of IC work if you're also responsible for reviewing 8 hours of work from N reports. You are a thread consuming a queue.

Re: What you give up by moving into engineering management

#70

Post by getoffmyyawn »

After being drafted into Engineering Management from 3 IC roles in a row, I decided to jump in with enthusiasm. My primary motivation is that I've had bad engineering managers and a couple of great ones and I want to be like the great ones.

Along the way I have studied a lot about how to manage people in a positive way. I learned coaching and that has helped me help others grow in their career which I find very rewarding!

As an engineering leader I have 2 primary goals: 1. Enable the team to deliver top quality work. 2. Do everything I can to make this a great place to be a software engineer. I filter every decision I make with these goals. If doesn't move us closer to both of them then its probably not the right decision.

I do miss full time coding but I have hobby projects and I do monthly games and challenges with the team with the goal of all of us having fun while learning something useful and/or interesting.

Honestly, it's a completely different job as an Engineering Manager vs being an IC. What you give up is replaced by what you gain. If you like helping people be their best and achieve big things, it can be very rewarding.

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