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Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

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Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#61

Post by midoridensha »

schoen wrote: post #58
midoridensha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I AM talking about hydraulics in my post, I even specifically mentioned brake oil, something hydraulic brakes require for a simple bleed operation. Hydraulics are great, and I have fixed mine. The parts are NOT a problem to acquire at all. I will say, however, that bleeding them is a bit fiddly and a pain, compared to bleeding car brakes, in my experience. I've done bleeds on both Shimano and Tektro brakes; the Shima…

Sorry, I didn't realize that you had understood that and were talking specifically about hydraulic maintenance. I have bikes with cable-actuated brakes and also one bike with a hydraulic system, and I've done maintenance myself on the former but not the latter. I personally think of the cable version as comprehensible and maintainable and the hydraulic version as black magic; hopefully that will change intentionally.…

No worries! Have you worked on car brakes before? Bike brakes aren't any more "black magic" than those, though again I will say they're more fiddly in my experience, because getting all the air bubbles out can be a pain sometimes. I've bled countless car brakes and it was always fairly easy with a helper to pump the pedal, but my experience with my 2 bikes has been more troublesome. I'm not sure what the problem is, considering cars have rather complex systems with multiple master cylinder reservoirs (2, for redundancy), 180 or 360-degree bends in the brakes lines, and now ABS systems, but getting all the air bubbles out of my bike systems turned out to be a bit of a black art, and it differs by caliper position (front vs rear) and hardware mfgr. The $20 brake bleed kits on Amazon are pretty good though, including all the stuff you'll need.

The nice thing about hydraulics is that, once they're set up, they're good until you need to change the pads usually, and even then the fluid is probably fine unless it's old. Rim brakes, on the other hand, need constant adjustment and fiddling just to keep them from rubbing, as the pads wear. I don't miss them one bit.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#62

Post by midoridensha »

ggm wrote: post #59
midoridensha wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. What brakes do you have exactly? There are only a handful of manufacturers (Shimano, SRAM, Tektro/TRP, Hope, maybe a couple others). And no, you shouldn't be losing anything. Bleeding is easy: you take connect a hose to the caliper, and a cup to the level/master cylinder, and pump some new fluid in there with a syringe. (In practice, it's somewhat fiddly and can be a l…

They're Tektro. That "in practice its somewhat fiddly" bit sounds like where I am. I'll go canvas my options with some other stores. Who knows? Maybe I'm being sold a line of guff here? (and its a Merida 200 not a Movida. I was having a bad hair day)

I have Tektro on one bike. They work fine, but maintenance on them is more of a pain than Shimano. I'm probably going to swap them out for Shimano later, because the Shimano brakes on my road bike are so much easier to work with.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#63

Post by ggm »

midoridensha wrote: post #55
schoen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of weird brakes do you have on your bike? Apparently hydraulics, instead of cables. Cf. https://www.bicyclehabitat.com/how-to/disc-brakes-101-pg362.... I have hydraulic brakes on one of my bikes too. They feel great (so accurate and responsive!), but I'm glad I haven't had to get them fixed yet...

I AM talking about hydraulics in my post, I even specifically mentioned brake oil, something hydraulic brakes require for a simple bleed operation. Hydraulics are great, and I have fixed mine. The parts are NOT a problem to acquire at all. I will say, however, that bleeding them is a bit fiddly and a pain, compared to bleeding car brakes, in my experience. I've done bleeds on both Shimano and Tektro brakes; the Shima…

You live in Australia? You have not had any problems securing bicycle parts here in Australia these last 2 years?

Cycle shops I ask in, say parts are a nightmare or were, the last time I asked. Maybe its about market size, maybe they just don't want the hassle.

Where you are, and your budget, affects availability of things. Are you in my market?

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#64

Post by ggm »

anotherboffin wrote: post #57
midoridensha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I AM talking about hydraulics in my post, I even specifically mentioned brake oil, something hydraulic brakes require for a simple bleed operation. Hydraulics are great, and I have fixed mine. The parts are NOT a problem to acquire at all. I will say, however, that bleeding them is a bit fiddly and a pain, compared to bleeding car brakes, in my experience. I've done bleeds on both Shimano and Tektro brakes; the Shima…

Maybe OP is “stuck” with shitty hydraulics from a lesser-known vendor for which it’s difficult to get the parts? I’d say they look into the cost of getting the whole system replaced, my Shimano low-ish end hydraulics have worked fine for years and as you’ve mentioned, parts are easy to get.

Tektro HD-M275 front and rear. When I go online, its ali, ebay and grey market suppliers mostly, not a heap of returns from recognisable Australian bike shops.

Maybe its my bad timing, buying a 2nd had bike when it was end-of-life for one model of brake, and now it needs work, people have moved onto the next 'best thing' and I am behind "can't get the parts"

(I know one respondent disagrees and says they are both easy to fix, and easy to get. I am just reporting both what I was told and what I find when I look. "easy" is very contextually defined in both cases. It would be very easy for me to confuse myself, order the wrong bits, or manage to dismantle but never re-mantle things.)

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#65

Post by [deleted] »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #12

All the numbers given here seem tiny in comparison to the emissions from manufacturing or using a car. It seems like premature optimization at best, and might even be counterproductive by implying that because some bikes are more sustainable than others, bikes are somehow unsustainable as a whole.

[deleted]

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#66

Post by abrookewood »

nmpennypacker wrote: post #51

I ride a titanium bike with rim brakes. It was custom made, and relatively expensive ($5,000 USD), but it is the only bike I ride, and it will last my entire lifetime, and more (it will require occasional component upgrades, just like any other bike). Plus, the ride quality is superb. I've found that, as with most things, investing in quality over quantity is the way to go. My bike may have been slightly 'less green'…

Can I ask what model you got? I've been looking at titanium for ages, but can't commit to anything.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#67

Post by derbOac »

harha wrote: post #47
gorjusborg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the mindset behind the choices. You don't need disc brakes. You don't need carbon frames, or even aluminum ones. These things are marginally better performing than their predecessors, but we want things to get better and better forever. That is exactly what makes it unsustainable. We'd be better off settling for good and sustainable than best and unsustainable. That's all.

Well you don’t need disk brakes until you do when the car pops up in front of you. There’s a bunch of people who would gain more from losing weight than whatever the marketing department of the bike company tells them, but it’s great to have this choice. I’m having just as much fun cycling as I do reading up on the tech and tinkering with my bikes, that’s time I’m not spending on being interested in cars.

I'm not going to vilify disc brakes because it's good to have choices and disc brakes are a good option.

However, I've always had this hunch that if you were going to actually quantify the percent of times in which the stopping time difference between a rim brake and disc brake actually was the deciding factor in serious cycling accidents, my guess is it's very very very low. That is, my guess is the car appears so suddenly it doesn't matter what brake you have, or the accident would have overwhelmingly been best prevented by approaching the intersection differently to begin with, or it doesn't involve another vehicle at all, but instead involves loss of cyclist control.

I guess it's not so much the disc brakes I take issue with, it's how new bike markets seem to lurch from one new component type to another so completely without serious weighing of actual costs and benefits in use. So you end up in this situation where new bikes all have disc brakes without rim brakes even being much of an option anymore. Even when people are interested in them and have legitimate reason, the dynamics of the bike market is such it pushes them away from it.

I guess I feel like something is different about the current bike market compared to other markets I'm familiar with. It feels to me like there's this market pressure due to various factors (bike manufacturers, sellers, cycling community discussion dynamics) toward some form that's hyperoptimised for use cases that aren't realistic in general. Maybe this has always been the case -- the skinny tires of the 1980s were pushed using unrealistic theories and test conditions -- but my sense is it's getting worse overall.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#68

Post by midoridensha »

ggm wrote: post #63
midoridensha wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I AM talking about hydraulics in my post, I even specifically mentioned brake oil, something hydraulic brakes require for a simple bleed operation. Hydraulics are great, and I have fixed mine. The parts are NOT a problem to acquire at all. I will say, however, that bleeding them is a bit fiddly and a pain, compared to bleeding car brakes, in my experience. I've done bleeds on both Shimano and Tektro brakes; the Shima…

You live in Australia? You have not had any problems securing bicycle parts here in Australia these last 2 years? Cycle shops I ask in, say parts are a nightmare or were, the last time I asked. Maybe its about market size, maybe they just don't want the hassle. Where you are, and your budget, affects availability of things. Are you in my market?

I'm in Japan. I've only checked Amazon, but I didn't see any problems getting parts there. I'd recommend looking at online sellers instead of local shops. Local shops aren't motivated to look for anything beyond what their preferred supplier has in stock.

Back in the US during Covid, I needed a new derailleur hangar because I bent mine, and wanted it quickly so I could go riding again. My local shops all said it was hard to find and expensive, and I'd have to wait a month just for them to install it (and they wouldn't sell it to me directly) for a small fortune because they said it needed to be specially bent (it didn't). So I found an online shop that had it and bought 2, got it in a few days, and installed it myself. Sorry, but after that experience, the people saying "support your LBS!" can shove it.

The other thing you should be aware of is that the exact part you're looking for may not be easily available. So if you want to replace a whole caliper, for instance, you'll probably have a much easier time finding a compatible caliper (probably a newer design) than finding another of the old one. Mfgrs are constantly updating their product lines, so it's frequently cheaper to just get something newer rather than an exact replacement, though of course there's limits here (you can't easily change from a 10-speed drivetrain to an 11-speed one, for instance, but you can easily mix-and-match different 11-speed cassettes). For hydraulic brakes, on road and hybrid bikes these days, they mostly all use the same flat-mount standard, with a few different rotor sizes.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#69

Post by midoridensha »

ggm wrote: post #64
anotherboffin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe OP is “stuck” with shitty hydraulics from a lesser-known vendor for which it’s difficult to get the parts? I’d say they look into the cost of getting the whole system replaced, my Shimano low-ish end hydraulics have worked fine for years and as you’ve mentioned, parts are easy to get.

Tektro HD-M275 front and rear. When I go online, its ali, ebay and grey market suppliers mostly, not a heap of returns from recognisable Australian bike shops. Maybe its my bad timing, buying a 2nd had bike when it was end-of-life for one model of brake, and now it needs work, people have moved onto the next 'best thing' and I am behind "can't get the parts" (I know one respondent disagrees and says they are both eas…

This is an addendum to my other reply to you. I only briefly googled for this model, but my guess is that it's an older model. It should be possible to find a newer product (either from Tektro or better yet Shimano, which uses the same kind of mineral oil as brake fluid so you can probably reuse your lever if you want, if it's the caliper that needs replacement) which is compatible with this system's mounts. You'd be better off doing that than trying to get an exact replacement: newer designs are usually better anyway, plus they're frequently cheaper since they're current production.

Re: Can we make bicycles sustainable again?

#70

Post by Karrot_Kream »

midoridensha wrote: post #61
schoen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I didn't realize that you had understood that and were talking specifically about hydraulic maintenance. I have bikes with cable-actuated brakes and also one bike with a hydraulic system, and I've done maintenance myself on the former but not the latter. I personally think of the cable version as comprehensible and maintainable and the hydraulic version as black magic; hopefully that will change intentionally.…

No worries! Have you worked on car brakes before? Bike brakes aren't any more "black magic" than those, though again I will say they're more fiddly in my experience, because getting all the air bubbles out can be a pain sometimes. I've bled countless car brakes and it was always fairly easy with a helper to pump the pedal, but my experience with my 2 bikes has been more troublesome. I'm not sure what the problem is,…

The fiddliness of bleeding a hydraulic brake line is exactly why I stick with cable actuated disk brakes on my bike hah. And even if the front wheel gets knocked out of the brake a bit it's trivial to go home, put it on the stand, and move the wheel around.

Hydraulic brakes are definitely fun but my bike is a compromise between low effort and utility. I'm running a 2x right now and running a barend shifter up front because my height and bike geometry means I often knock the front derailleur cable out of place. I should probably just switch to a 1x at this point.

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