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Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

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Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#61
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the primary reason I wouldn't go back to combustion. The running costs of electric vehicles are absurdly low at times. You can put 50k-100k miles on most EVs on sale today having only bought cabin air filters, tires and wiper blades in addition to the cost of the electricity - thats largely it!

What do you do after? Are you talking used or new?

From new, you will get to 100k miles with the above on majority of decent EVs on sale.

Beyond 100k, there isn't much, but you will likely need to do things like brake disc replacement or some shock work, but the costs are still minimal vs ICE car maintenance at this stage in an ICE car's lifecycle. If you do pads and discs at 100k on an EV, you will generally be good to 200k again. The shock work is no different to what a gas car might need at this stage.

Thanks to regen braking, the lifespan of the braking system consumable components is increased enormously vs combustion.

The batteries are still generally giving useable performance/range up to 300k on a lot of used Teslas, but this will vary depending how the owner looked after the battery. Lots of DC supercharging generates a lot of heat and isnt great for long term range. A tesla mainly charged on AC at home will keep great battery range for a very long time though. I'm planning to keep my EV for a crazy long period of time, given the lack of operating costs. The range loss on an mainly AC charged EV can be surprisingly minimal.

The only fluids are some coolants generally, and those are easily/cheaply replaced usually on a ~10 year cycle. Most EVs are just scaled up electric toy RC cars in terms of their architecture - really! - the number of drivetrain components is incredibly small.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#62
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. EVs are downright fun to drive. Sure they don't have the handling of a lightweight Porsche, but being able to walk a Mustang GT with an F-150 lightning on the highway drag race is something all the "truck guys" can brag about. That's a very important selling factor, especially from a test-drive perspective. The biggest hurdle i…

> Electric cars have something that previous "green" vehicles never had: rapid acceleration. If people really cared about acceleration, why would they buy standard versions of the Model 3/Y (which outsell performance versions)? It's quick, but there are cheaper vehicles that outperform it 0-60.

Because an off the shelf standard Model 3 is 3-4x faster 0-60 than almost any other car in its price range.

The difference between standard and performance model is nowhere near the same leap in speed.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lot of F-150 buyers that want a good Electric Truck... The F-150 Lightening has a strong launch, and reservation order book... then the actual truck came out and they burned alot of good will with the Community by rushing it to market with poor performance, poor battery tech, etc. The F-150 Lightening was a BAD first showing for Ford, and it will be hard for them to recover from it with F150 owners.

Wasn't the Mach-E Ford's first showing though? I haven't heard much about them...

I've actually seen a good amount of them in/around the bay area.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#64
Oakville employs 3,000 people, and though salaried, skilled-trade and "some" production workers will continue work through the six-month transformation that begins in the second quarter of 2024, temporarily laid-off employees will be back before the end of next year, said Tony Savoni, plant manager.

So 6 months of unemployment for presumably most of the 3000 employees.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#66
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only people driving F-150s around job sites are management with a stipend. Half ton trucks are a lot less capable then most people think, and are primarily targeted to the former of the two groups you mention

What do they drive instead then?

In truck land the numbers start at 150 and go up.

It gets reported rather oddly. The headlines all say F150, but when you open the article it will say the F series pickup. The F series trucks include every model of pickup truck Ford makes F[1-6]50.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#67
post #37
post #3

Combined with the investments in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Michigan, this is "bet the company" levels of investment. I pray for Ford's sake they picked the right horse (vis-à-vis, e.g., hydrogen or ammonia).

Its a regulatory bet, not an engineering one. The West is making a civilizational bet on EVs so it's not Ford that loses the bet, its the entire West. From a technical POV, I disagree with the bet. I think hybridization of ICE while transitioning to CNG+1%NH3 fuel (to have very high compression engines) makes a lot more sense. Afterall, if you can make an ICE match an electrical power plant's carbon emissions, electr…

> Afterall, if you can make an ICE match an electrical power plant's carbon emissions, electric cars make very little sense in the short to mid term (until the marginal power is guaranteed to be sustainable)

Doesn't the need for a car engine to be light enough and small enough to work in the car mean that power plants will almost always be able to be cleaner?

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#68
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a regulatory bet, not an engineering one. The West is making a civilizational bet on EVs so it's not Ford that loses the bet, its the entire West. From a technical POV, I disagree with the bet. I think hybridization of ICE while transitioning to CNG+1%NH3 fuel (to have very high compression engines) makes a lot more sense. Afterall, if you can make an ICE match an electrical power plant's carbon emissions, electr…

> From a technical POV, I disagree with the bet. The energy requirements for the kind of full and rapid electrification being pushed (cars, trucks, boats, ships, aircraft, homes) seems daunting to me. Yes, Tesla's Master Plan Part 3 lays it out, and yet the scale of the thing is like nothing the US has done, well, I think I can say, ever. I mean, we have to build brand-new grid-scale clean energy generation at a scal…

> We are simply putting fantasy before reality. Reality means that power generation expansion must come first and cars follow based on quotas established to maintain generation/grid integrity.

None of the players are willing to expand power generation for some future possibility, we have to scale up demand before they're willing to invest in that.

It also ignores that the biggest problem currently isn't generation but is scheduling, if more utilities had the capability to help homeowners schedule charging based on system demand we'd barely need any increase in generation to begin with as we don't have much trouble generating the needed power over the scale of a night, but if everyone tries to pull an 11kwh charge at the same time (similar to California having issues in the evening as everyone turns up the AC when people arive home) we do have a problem. Even california with all it's problem has enough capacity if there was better scheduling available to help flatten the curve.

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV rebates got bundled into the Inflation Reduction Act and passed last year. The Act of Congress has already happened. Further encouragements to go electric will happen through the EPA who already have the congressional authority to regulate tailpipes. Anything they do will be challenged in court, but if they can get it through the courts they can do a lot without an Act of Congress.

I did not realize a Tax Credit, that also has a TON of strings attached that as it phases into more protectionism fewer and fewer EV's will be able to quality for, and it at odds with other Environmental / Climate protections (like the requirement that Lithium some from approved NA vendors, but then disallowing new Lithium manufacturing in the US) is now a Mandate the produce EV's The claim I responded to was that Co…

Before 2030 we'll be seeing $7500 rebates on $15000 cars. That's a pretty strong mandate.

Also, this proposed EPA rule is an even stronger mandate: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/08/climate/biden-electric-ca...

Re: Ford to spend $1.3B to transform Canada factory into EV manufacturing hub

#70
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are two types of F-150 buyers The F-series isn't the most popular vehicle in America because there are only two types of buyers. Roughly, the answer to "who is a truck person?" is "everyone."

You unintentionally make my point. If "everyone" is a truck person then no one is a truck person. Majority of people who own trucks do not use it as a truck... rather it's used like a glorified car or SUV. That clearly makes for two types of truck buyers, with two types of needs and wants. An electric truck is not for professionals - it's for your office commuter who likes the idea of a truck. The Lightning fits that…

> do not use it as a truck

Could you elaborate? It sounds like you're trying to suggest that towing an RV is the only use for a truck? But then you mentioned worksite, and the Lightning is very well suited for that (says my next-door neighbor, who operates a small construction company, and is quite happy to be electrified and not spending $1500/month fueling a gas-powered half ton).

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