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Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

nicole.express

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Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#61

Post by bullen »

trafficante wrote: post #57
bullen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell. Should have said "custom", but then that could also be misunderstood. In my experience (I made the first VR MMO: http://aeonalpha.com , with the wrong programming language!) hig…

> I meant native as in compiled to fast/minimal native machine code, the other games are all Unity/Unreal potato VM games, all 263/266 of them... with GC = sickness. The Climbs are Cryengine which might not have GC but still is bloated to hell. Fascinating info, thanks for sharing. I was aware of the two Cryengine games and the omnipresence of Epic’s engines, but I didn’t realize it was that lopsided. Absolutely agre…

I get "Sorry, something went wrong." on that oculus URL.

Probably a temporary thing, but still I need to upload it with adb because that is how you develop for this thing.

Android is horrible now, I remember making something for the HTC Hero back in 2009, that was nice... now you have to install many GB of junk to even get started.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#62

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

voxelghost wrote: post #37
havblue wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people usually realize how pointless and uncomfortable it is every time they try it. "When you look at a 2-D movie, it's already in 3-D as far as your mind is concerned. When you see Lawrence of Arabia growing from a speck as he rides toward you across the desert, are you thinking, 'Look how slowly he grows against the horizon'? Our minds use the principle of perspective to provide the third dimension. Adding…

I think something that also plays into this is the fact that 3D content producers, in their efforts to "show off" 3D capabilities, insist on breaking the 3:d wall by putting stuff into the viewers room, where they don't belong(mentally). I think this is why, to me, 3D movies look less "realistic" than 2D movies. It would be interesting to know if the "less realistic" effect was also something experienced by viewers a…

I think the bigger issue is that most of what's presented as "3-D" in modern times is fake. Most people have seen exactly one movie that was shot and rendered in true 3-D: Avatar (well, that's two movies now).

Other than that, they may have seen a Pixar movie or Hugo in true 3-D. Or the Transformers one where they rampage through Chicago.

Otherwise, it has all been post-processed fake-3-D crap that unsurprisingly turned audiences off.

Also there's a misconception that 3-D is only good for spectacular movies. Hugo showed otherwise, and anyone who has experience taking 3-D pictures knows that the best ones are often indoor scenes of dinner tables or rooms or normal objects, or water.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#63

Post by grumbel »

dylan604 wrote: post #20
vlunkr wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very popular right now, but it's really hard to tell if it's just a fad. Motion controls had a huge wave of popularity starting with the Wii, but that died off. It will be interesting to see.

>Motion controls had a huge wave of popularity starting with the Wii, but that died off. is there a consensus to why this is? was it just a fad/phase, or is it just too physically demanding so people literally and figuratively tired of it?

It's easy to see why the motion controllers we had failed, but it's hard to tell if a better ones would have been successful.

The original Wiimote only had an accelerometer, that worked well enough in a game like WiiSports where all your actions are predetermined and you only need to measure how 'hard' the player moved the controller. But that approach doesn't work in games where you have multiple actions at the same time.

MotionPlus added an gyro, that's better, but still not good due to lacking a magnetometer, so you had to constantly recalibrate it every couple of minutes. That gets old fast. It also still had no position sensing, so still a lot of guesswork involved in trying to figure out what the player was actually doing with the controller. The Nintendo Switch is also still stuck at this level.

Meanwhile Playstation Move had full 6DOF tracking all the way back in 2010, no need to ever recalibrate thanks to a tracking camera. Amazing in theory, but in actuality that controller was handicaped by a terrible button/stick layout, as in they didn't have any analog stick on the 6DOF controller and instead had a untracked NavController with only one stick. This rendered the Move controller impractical for most regular games. Worse yet, they never updated it and kept using it on PlaystationVR, only finally replacing it this year with PSVR2. The Move controller handicapped a whole decade of motion gaming.

Would a better controller succeeded? Hard to tell. Gyro-aim is still popular on SteamController, Switch and Playstation and is a big upgrade over stick controls, but not as widely adopted as it should be, due to Microsoft not having any motion sensing in their Xbox controller, thus making it impossible for multiplatform games to depend on it. The laser-pointer input of the Wiimote was also working really well and is essentially what most VR games use for UI navigation, but it requires having a split controller.

Going the obvious path of just taking a regular controller, splitting it in two and adding motion tracking to each half was never done by any of the big companies. Even modern VR controllers don't go that route and end up with a layout that is unsuitable as a drop-in replacement for a regular controller.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#64

Post by tanjtanjtanj »

bullen wrote: post #23
ytreyrty wrote: post #8

will 3D/VR ever really become mainstream? i recently bought a PSVR2, the tech seemed amazing but i had to return it due to horrible motion sickness. we're at almost 30 years of the tech still not being ready for prime time.

The PSVR2 has persistence problems due to the pancake lenses taking up too much light. Basically the strobing can't be short enough (to not induce smear) because that would dim the picture too much. It makes everyone sick. The top of the line is still Quest 2, the display (120Hz) and fresnel lenses are better than most more expensive alternatives. And with DAS FrankenQuest you have comfort. Unfortunately Echo VR (the…

The PSVR2 does not have pancake lenses nor persistence problems. It also has fresnel lenses and 120Hz refresh rate.

I think there are only a couple headsets with pancake lenses at this point in time. Supposedly the PSVR2 has more advanced fresnel lenses than prior headsets of the same kind as well but I'm not versed enough in the technology to know.

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#65

Post by bullen »

tanjtanjtanj wrote: post #64
bullen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PSVR2 has persistence problems due to the pancake lenses taking up too much light. Basically the strobing can't be short enough (to not induce smear) because that would dim the picture too much. It makes everyone sick. The top of the line is still Quest 2, the display (120Hz) and fresnel lenses are better than most more expensive alternatives. And with DAS FrankenQuest you have comfort. Unfortunately Echo VR (the…

The PSVR2 does not have pancake lenses nor persistence problems. It also has fresnel lenses and 120Hz refresh rate. I think there are only a couple headsets with pancake lenses at this point in time. Supposedly the PSVR2 has more advanced fresnel lenses than prior headsets of the same kind as well but I'm not versed enough in the technology to know.

You are right, but maybe that was the reason they couldn't use pancake?

HDR is the reason for this, they need more brightness, so they sacrifice low persistence.

Also all AAA experiences on PSVR2 run at 60 FPS and re-project to 120 FPS.

So it's actually worse then my initial comment. Echo VR does 120 FPS without re-projection on a 15W device vs. 60 FPS on PS5 at 350W!!!

I have been sucking in too much VR news lately after a 7 year hiatus (not counting 3 HL:A playthroughs) so I confused all the info, thx for setting me straight!

Re: Sega 3-D Glasses: How did they work?

#66

Post by tanjtanjtanj »

bullen wrote: post #65
tanjtanjtanj wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PSVR2 does not have pancake lenses nor persistence problems. It also has fresnel lenses and 120Hz refresh rate. I think there are only a couple headsets with pancake lenses at this point in time. Supposedly the PSVR2 has more advanced fresnel lenses than prior headsets of the same kind as well but I'm not versed enough in the technology to know.

You are right, but maybe that was the reason they couldn't use pancake? HDR is the reason for this, they need more brightness, so they sacrifice low persistence. Also all AAA experiences on PSVR2 run at 60 FPS and re-project to 120 FPS. So it's actually worse then my initial comment. Echo VR does 120 FPS without re-projection on a 15W device vs. 60 FPS on PS5 at 350W!!! I have been sucking in too much VR news lately…

I believe the persistence issues come up with games that use reprojection from 60fps. I don't think its an issue with the screen itself just based on the raw specs from the screen.

I don't get motion sickness from the PSVR2 like I would occasionally with the Rift CV1 but again, I'm not super knowledgeable about any of the underlying technology.

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