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Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

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Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#61

Post by dumpsterdiver »

regularjack wrote: post #10
nostrademons wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They level out both the upside and the downside. If you can never fire people, you're going to be very very cautious about who you hire in the first place. That makes it much harder to get companies into a bidding war that'll actually raise your wages. I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe. You'll see that a lot in HN comments, where…

You're assuming that the differences in wages between US and Europe are solely due to labor laws, which is quite a stretch, in my opinion.

Where did they make that assumption at all?

How does the parent commenter acknowledging a single factor in a situation lead you to believe that they assume no other contributing factors exist?

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#62

Post by refurb »

em-bee wrote: post #51
dantheman wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely a right and wrong - it is morally wrong to use force to enrich yourself at the expense of others. In the case of rent control -- landlords and future renters suffer. In the case the employment -- it's employers and future workers.

how does rentcontrol let future renters suffer?

If, as a landlord, you know you can never raise the rent, and you can't evict a tenant except for very limited reasons, well then you have your own internal set of screening criteria and you only take the most qualified renters. It's far better to leave the unit empty for a few months because the loss of rental income is tiny compared to the financial loss of choosing the wrong tenant.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#63

Post by dumpsterdiver »

hsjqllzlfkf wrote: post #14
nostrademons wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They level out both the upside and the downside. If you can never fire people, you're going to be very very cautious about who you hire in the first place. That makes it much harder to get companies into a bidding war that'll actually raise your wages. I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe. You'll see that a lot in HN comments, where…

> I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe. And as we know, the only difference between us and Europe is labor laws. /s

Aside from the difference in labor laws, I've noticed a certain sense of entitlement coming from a very vocal cohort of people that appears to stem from such strong worker protections.

To be clear, that cohort is entitled to the protections they so often reference. What I'm saying specifically is that sometimes it shows. Perhaps it's a vocal minority, and this doesn't actually reflect a wider trend, I don't know. Some of the rhetoric I've encountered from this cohort though has come off as downright hostile towards businesses.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#64

Post by austhrow743 »

kar5pt wrote: post #46
ActorNightly wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume that they hired with eventual plan of firing. Thats not the case. They hired because opportunity cost of not hiring was too high.

They should have known that an economic downturn was possible and planned for it. Wtf do these C-level execs get paid millions of dollars for?

Why the assumption that they didn't plan for it?

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#65

Post by waych »

aix1 wrote: post #39
nostrademons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living is usually higher in areas with higher wages, because it means that residents have more money to spend on living.

Right, and Google explicitly doesn't model for cost of living in its comp philosophy.

They use per market pricing instead, which roughly works out to the same thing in the long term, while not being subject to short term fluctuations.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#66

Post by em-bee »

refurb wrote: post #62
em-bee wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does rentcontrol let future renters suffer?

If, as a landlord, you know you can never raise the rent, and you can't evict a tenant except for very limited reasons, well then you have your own internal set of screening criteria and you only take the most qualified renters. It's far better to leave the unit empty for a few months because the loss of rental income is tiny compared to the financial loss of choosing the wrong tenant.

i see your point but i don't think this is true. i believe that bad tenants are uncommon but exist at all price levels. raising rent is not going to keep them out and they will have to be screened anyways.

i don't know how rentcontrol works elsewhere, but in germany generally it means that rent can't be raised more than once a year or 15 months or something in that range, and it can't be raised more than a few percent each time, but it doesn't mean that it can't be raised at all. not being able to evict a tenant is independent of that.

the general issue here is a power differential. big company vs small family. i know in the US there are more small landlords who only have a few houses or even one. but that is rare in germany. most are bigger businesses with hundreds of apartments, and with that the risk of getting a bad tenant is obviously larger, but the financial risk is also spread over all tenants.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#67

Post by bongoman37 »

kar5pt wrote: post #46
ActorNightly wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume that they hired with eventual plan of firing. Thats not the case. They hired because opportunity cost of not hiring was too high.

They should have known that an economic downturn was possible and planned for it. Wtf do these C-level execs get paid millions of dollars for?

[dead]

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#68

Post by future_i_snow »

nostrademons wrote: post #5
ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

They level out both the upside and the downside. If you can never fire people, you're going to be very very cautious about who you hire in the first place. That makes it much harder to get companies into a bidding war that'll actually raise your wages. I've had a few European teammates, and they usually come to the U.S. because they can make 3-5x what they could in Europe. You'll see that a lot in HN comments, where…

I make almost exactly €70k in Sweden and I am _very_ happy not making more since I also have very very cheap universal health care, and very very few mass shootings in the public schools my children are attending.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#69

Post by lern_too_spel »

greeny7373 wrote: post #52
ActorNightly wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume that they hired with eventual plan of firing. Thats not the case. They hired because opportunity cost of not hiring was too high.

I still don't get Google and the others having huge revenue per employee. Google could easily put these people in making more money. But instead they launch weird products like their Blockchain service, miss out on AI etc. Google Io is in May, if they don't announce google personal ai assistant they don't have enough visionary people.

Oh, they'll announce it. They just won't ship it. That's I/O for you.

Re: Google and Amazon Struggle to Lay Off Workers in Europe Due to Labor Laws

#70

Post by 0xy »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #7
ibnbutlAn wrote: post #3

EU labor laws protect the workers. I dont get why US Americans often think these laws dont benefit the workers.

Well, the salaries are about 30-50% what they are in the US. Maybe it's related.

25% if you're a developer. To be a developer in Europe (minus Switzerland & the UK) is to willingly accept hundreds of thousands of dollars less for your labor, in return for benefits that might not exist by time you retire.
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