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On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

woodfromeden.substack.com

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Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#61

Post by moffkalast »

camtarn wrote: post #60
moffkalast wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine being so hopelessly capitalistic that you label going out into nature to gather some wood as theft. Sweden is like 70% forest.

It's more of a tragedy of the commons. The article's comment about wood really took me aback, because I'm part of a community that is currently having said tragedy. We live in the UK, where forests are a lot rarer. We like camping in a forest by the sea, but it's become such a popular camping spot that people have completely stripped it of all fallen wood. This forest grows on particularly nutrient-poor land, so the…

Ironically the fate of UK's many forests lies in the fires of industry prior to the invention of coal. There was no tragedy of the commons there, they were bought and sold for profit which is not unlike what OP suggests would be the "correct" way to do things.

The fact is that if you're not exploiting something on a mass industrial level there's hardly a way you'd destroy anything. And that's not being done by regular people trying to make a small living.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#62

Post by low_tech_love »

As a south american who lives in Sweden since a few years, this article is offensive and preposterous, exactly the kind of disconnected, absurd surreal nonsense that I have come to expect from the Swedes around me. The fact that this person honestly thinks the word "poor" applies to him is baffling. He chose to live a simple life, and even after trying very hard to screw everything up, he still can not manage to do so. Because that's how Sweden works: you can't be super rich, but you can also not be really poor.

So he doesn't eat meat regularly because it's expensive? Bull%&#$. Yes, some types of meat are very expensive here, but other more common types are as cheap as Broccoli or Cheese. The true reason is the one he let slip: he doesn't know how to cook it. And more importantly: he doesn't care, because he has access to a lot of other good stuff that he can just put in a frying pan for 5 minutes and eat it (Swedes have an extremely low level of requirement for food; they will eat raw vegetables or crappy kebab-based fast food everyday if it saves them a few minutes). A really poor person does not have access to any food without busting their ass off 12 hours a day in some horrible, exploitative job that nobody else wants to do.

Oh, he doesn't drive because it's expensive? Bull%&#$. He has an m-f-ing electric bike. Tell a poor person from Colombia or Venezuela that a poor person in Sweden has an electric bike. They will laugh on your face, then ask you to please take them with you to Sweden. It's preposterous. The true? They don't need a car. I have been here for 6 years, with two kids, and I only bought my first car last month. All cities have bike lanes everywhere, which are safe because the cars actually respect them, and the public transportation is amazing. How far do you think a person can go in São Paulo or Bogotá in a bike before they are run over by a car? Oh, yeah, and also because in those cities you have live 50km away from your actual office if you want to pay less than 80% of your salary in rent.

This guy has the guts to say 1500 dollars a month is "ridiculously low for such a large family". I cannot keep reading. That's enough.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#63

Post by low_tech_love »

bhawks wrote: post #28

The author seems quite selfish and manipulative of others. He chooses to live this way because it allows him to avoid social interactions with others. Unlike true poverty he could easily utilize both his relational capital (call parents, get cash) and educational capital (had the ability to get a professional job and turned it down) these are simply not options for people who are actually poor. He clearly wants more…

It's interesting that, indirectly, you managed to take away from the article two very basic things about Swedes: (1) Yes, they will do anything to avoid human contact; dialog and human connection are two extremely emotionally expensive things for them. And (2) yes, love and care mean totally different things here than most other people from other countries are used to.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#64

Post by low_tech_love »

vintermann wrote: post #48
yellow_lead wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I'm not the original commentator, I think selfish is a fair characterization. When you have kids you should want to give them the best opportunities possible. If they end up wanting to make the choices the author made, that is fine, but at least they would have the option of living differently too. I'm not saying that it's impossible they will have those opportunities, but it's less likely than if they had a…

As I said in the other comment, I think this guy knows his own situation (which is probably very different from yours) well. He's giving his kids an upbringing that is good in its own way, that gives them experiences and opportunities not many others have. It's very questionable if "prestigious schools before the age of 18" is as optimal as you think in Sweden. It's good to have strengths not many other have. My "soc…

The whole article is absurd; he has 1500 dollars of monthly income without having to pay rent. He will spend maybe 200 in groceries a month. His government provides him free health care and free education to his children. He has public transportation and bike infrastructure literally everywhere. I'd say this article makes me sick in the stomach but unfortunately I have gotten used to this.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#65

Post by low_tech_love »

shswkna wrote: post #10

The author refers to others being driven by class and status. There are however also people who work because they want to contribute to society and provide purpose to others and themselves. I was instilled by my parents with a principle that I should give back more than I take from society. I am not judging the author, and I believe he and his wife love their kids, which is what matters most. But as others have point…

By the end of the article he says that, if he took the job, he'd work 40 hours a day and get nothing out of it that he does not already have. Fine; it's Sweden, I believe it (even though many people will say that this is exactly what is bringing Sweden down, but that's another subject). What baffles me is how a person can actually believe that this is an universal truth, some kind of take away message. Imagine being so alienated that you believe anyone anywhere can simply stop working and go live safely in the woods with 5 kids without starving to death.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#67

Post by marssaxman »

low_tech_love wrote: post #64
vintermann wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said in the other comment, I think this guy knows his own situation (which is probably very different from yours) well. He's giving his kids an upbringing that is good in its own way, that gives them experiences and opportunities not many others have. It's very questionable if "prestigious schools before the age of 18" is as optimal as you think in Sweden. It's good to have strengths not many other have. My "soc…

The whole article is absurd; he has 1500 dollars of monthly income without having to pay rent. He will spend maybe 200 in groceries a month. His government provides him free health care and free education to his children. He has public transportation and bike infrastructure literally everywhere. I'd say this article makes me sick in the stomach but unfortunately I have gotten used to this.

What is absurd about it? Sounds like a pretty good life.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#68

Post by bojangleslover »

low_tech_love wrote: post #62

As a south american who lives in Sweden since a few years, this article is offensive and preposterous, exactly the kind of disconnected, absurd surreal nonsense that I have come to expect from the Swedes around me. The fact that this person honestly thinks the word "poor" applies to him is baffling. He chose to live a simple life, and even after trying very hard to screw everything up, he still can not manage to do s…

>1500 dollars a month

Nearly half of which is welfare!

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#69

Post by rootusrootus »

bhawks wrote: post #28

The author seems quite selfish and manipulative of others. He chooses to live this way because it allows him to avoid social interactions with others. Unlike true poverty he could easily utilize both his relational capital (call parents, get cash) and educational capital (had the ability to get a professional job and turned it down) these are simply not options for people who are actually poor. He clearly wants more…

> The author seems quite selfish and manipulative of others.

And snobby. He spends a lot of time rationalizing how his choices are morally superior.

Re: On the experience of being dirt-poorish, for people who want to be

#70

Post by low_tech_love »

marssaxman wrote: post #67
low_tech_love wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole article is absurd; he has 1500 dollars of monthly income without having to pay rent. He will spend maybe 200 in groceries a month. His government provides him free health care and free education to his children. He has public transportation and bike infrastructure literally everywhere. I'd say this article makes me sick in the stomach but unfortunately I have gotten used to this.

What is absurd about it? Sounds like a pretty good life.

Exactly.
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