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Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

nytimes.com

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Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#61

Post by gibrown »

alsaaro wrote: post #14

Remember, a Grand Jury indicted John Edwards, a vice-Presidential candidate, for essentially the same thing Trump is being accused of -- that is using campaign funds to hide an affair. Prior to Edward's indictment he was thought be the future of the democratic party, if Edwards was convicted on all counts he faced up the 30 years in prison, he beat the charges though -- a rarity in federal prosecutions. So there is p…

Sounds like there are 34 counts of falsifying business records so it is probably more than just that one payoff.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#62

Post by [deleted] »

bruceb wrote: post #40
alsaaro wrote: post #14

Remember, a Grand Jury indicted John Edwards, a vice-Presidential candidate, for essentially the same thing Trump is being accused of -- that is using campaign funds to hide an affair. Prior to Edward's indictment he was thought be the future of the democratic party, if Edwards was convicted on all counts he faced up the 30 years in prison, he beat the charges though -- a rarity in federal prosecutions. So there is p…

>Prior to Edward's indictment he was thought be the future of the democratic party Respectfully he wasn't seen that way. His indictment was in 2011. Obama was president and still had another election to do. Edwards had not been relevant since 2008, really since 2004, as no one thought he could be Hilary or Obama in the primary. >So there is precedent for indictments for this particular crime One could argue its shows…

[deleted]

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#63

Post by xienze »

pjkundert wrote: post #43
throwaway2729 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As the lamest, least armed “overthrowers” of a government ever? ;)

Yeah kinda funny how the same people who claim the Second Amendment is useless because "you stand no chance against the military" also think the government was >this< close to being overthrown by a bunch of unarmed yokels.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#65

Post by ouid »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #20
flangola7 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? I want this, why would history be unkind to me?

Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Better serve as long as possible in that case, and use the power of government to keep himself in power. Kind of what used to happen before democracy.

Well, in this philosophy, there's only one real thing that you should punish presidents for, and that's trying to use their power to keep themselves in power.

But Trump did that, so he is exactly the man we should be making an example of.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#67

Post by photochemsyn »

I think it sets a good precedent. If indicting past presidents (and vice presidents) for crimes committed while in office (or while running for office), well, the courts are going to be busy on this front for years to come. Bush and Cheney are certainly candidates, r.e. those "Saddam has an active WMD program" claims. The list could be expanded to include charges related to the unConstitutional domestic spying programs, the assassination of an American citizen without due process, the kickbacks from foreign countries in the form of jobs for family members, the lack of prosecutorial effort regarding the 2008 subprime fraud situation... and just imagine if these prosecutorial standards were also applied to the House and Senate? The perp walk would stretch around the block.

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#69

Post by zahma »

bruceb wrote: post #40
alsaaro wrote: post #14

Remember, a Grand Jury indicted John Edwards, a vice-Presidential candidate, for essentially the same thing Trump is being accused of -- that is using campaign funds to hide an affair. Prior to Edward's indictment he was thought be the future of the democratic party, if Edwards was convicted on all counts he faced up the 30 years in prison, he beat the charges though -- a rarity in federal prosecutions. So there is p…

>Prior to Edward's indictment he was thought be the future of the democratic party Respectfully he wasn't seen that way. His indictment was in 2011. Obama was president and still had another election to do. Edwards had not been relevant since 2008, really since 2004, as no one thought he could be Hilary or Obama in the primary. >So there is precedent for indictments for this particular crime One could argue its shows…

It is never a bad time to pursue justice and allow the rusty machinery of our democracy to operate. I don't really care what comes of it, though I have an opinion of what is right and also what will happen. Many people treat this like a zero sum game: either he wins or he loses, and that result is good for Red Team or Blue Team. It would be helpful to our Nation if we recast this indictment as whether a public hearing on the alleged crimes is beneficial to the longevity of our way of governing. To show that none is above the law sends a powerful and unifying signal. So many of us -- my self included -- have already lost faith in our institutions, and while one trial will hardly restore them to glory or depolarize our politics, we must give our laws and processes credence by engaging them. Otherwise for what good are they?

Re: Grand jury votes to indict Donald Trump

#70

Post by infamouscow »

flangola7 wrote: post #15
infamouscow wrote: post #12

[flagged]

What do you mean? I want this, why would history be unkind to me?

There's all kinds of unprecedented legal and political ramifications nobody can predict from this.

Don't get me wrong, I think every POTUS in recent memory should be locked up for war crimes, but going after living presidents for petty nonsense isn't worth what falls out of it. This is complicated by the fact Trump is going to run again in 2024, putting this further into uncharted territory.

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