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America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

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Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#61

Post by [deleted] »

quxbar wrote: post #52
jaggederest wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's called a laborer. Frequently they own their own tools. "Capital", in this context, means the ownership of the means of production (classically factories, but in this century as much pointed to data, land, and regulatory capture). Specifically, the means of production that you do not operate. If you must do labor for a living, you are not a capital owner. Stop identifying with the class of owners when you are a…

We castle and cathedral builders like to pretend there is great meaning in how we decide arrange the stones.

[deleted]

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#62

Post by polygamous_bat »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #58
polygamous_bat wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone once said, there are no atheists in a foxhole, and no libertarians in a bank run. I've seen this tired argument so many times in last year: you make millions pumping crypto, you're just a genius capitalist and not a regulatory arbitrageur. If you lose money falling for another person's pump and dump, it's the government's fault for not saving you or making you whole. For these people, government only exist…

> As someone once said, there are no atheists in a foxhole, and no libertarians in a bank run. This isn't all that profound though. People can advocate for a policy or structure of society while also acting in their own interests in any given situation. And you will find countless examples of that in any position or belief, whether it is social housing advocates lobbying against cheap housing being built in their nei…

> People can advocate for a policy or structure of society while also acting in their own interests in any given situation.

And thus we should have a set of rules we agree that is enforced consistently to increase fairness in the system. We can even charge a group of people with that _governing_ duty, and call them something like _government_?

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#63

Post by kevviiinn »

emodendroket wrote: post #59
readthenotes1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be argued that the United States government is at war with its citizens...

Oh, come on, you know what I mean. Russia or other places with unfavorable relationships with the West we hear about “oligarchs” regularly.

Of course, because you're listening to American media owned by American oligarchs

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#65

Post by throwawaylinux »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #62
throwawaylinux wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone once said, there are no atheists in a foxhole, and no libertarians in a bank run. This isn't all that profound though. People can advocate for a policy or structure of society while also acting in their own interests in any given situation. And you will find countless examples of that in any position or belief, whether it is social housing advocates lobbying against cheap housing being built in their nei…

> People can advocate for a policy or structure of society while also acting in their own interests in any given situation. And thus we should have a set of rules we agree that is enforced consistently to increase fairness in the system. We can even charge a group of people with that _governing_ duty, and call them something like _government_?

Considering how much you like to ask these questions I'm surprised you don't like answering them.

I don't agree that follows from my statement though, no.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#66

Post by kevviiinn »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #46
polygamous_bat wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government propping up special interests is pretty anti capitalistic, whether it's a corporation, an unemployed person, or a college student trying to default on their loans. So I am assuming a purely capitalistic system would let the elderly and the disabled die on the street begging for charity? Are you advocating for such a system? Because no thank you, I am good.

By some peoples' definition of a purely capitalistic system that could be the case. By others, where most people are happy to pay a small and reasonable amount of tax, donation, or general insurance to have some social systems in place, because they can see the benefit and recognize that society is improved for their benefit as well even if they never make use of them directly (and therefore it being somewhat close t…

Good question, how many homeless people are there in China right now?

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#67

Post by indymike »

vitessa wrote: post #7

This was capitalism, a beacon of hope for people who are smart, hardworking, and comfortable with risk, promising a greater share of the spoils to them than to those who are not. Wrong. That’s not what capitalism is or means. Capitalism is an economic system in which private investors run the economy in search of personal profit, while those who lack capital rely on wage labor to survive. You can debate whether this…

Actually, capitalism is simply an economic system where private citizens can own the means of production. In other words, people can own businesses, and shares in businesses That's it. Nothing else.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#68

Post by wahnfrieden »

emodendroket wrote: post #32
b1c1jones wrote: post #16

Just call them oligarchs and have done with the whole argument. Wait, what happened to the robber barons? I guess they didn't have PACs.

The term "robber baron" sounds so impossibly dated it's hard to take it seriously, and "oligarch" seems to be the favored term for when people have corrupt business relations in enemy states, so perhaps using "oligarch" is more illuminating for a modern audience.

You have Andrew Carnegie to thank for expensive marketing campaigns that retired that term in popular usage and rebranding robber barony under the philanthropist label. Now we have robber barons that look like they're trying to be nice.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#69

Post by throwawaymaths »

emodendroket wrote: post #32
b1c1jones wrote: post #16

Just call them oligarchs and have done with the whole argument. Wait, what happened to the robber barons? I guess they didn't have PACs.

The term "robber baron" sounds so impossibly dated it's hard to take it seriously, and "oligarch" seems to be the favored term for when people have corrupt business relations in enemy states, so perhaps using "oligarch" is more illuminating for a modern audience.

It seems hard to call big us ceos oligarchs, I would find it hard to believe for example Sundar pichai interacts even say weekly with Joe Biden, if for no other reason that there are so many potentially "influential" CEOs in the US and (at least there is a perception) they generally have better things to do than try to influence the president.

Re: America Has Replaced Capitalism with Cronyism

#70

Post by throwawaymaths »

indymike wrote: post #67
vitessa wrote: post #7

This was capitalism, a beacon of hope for people who are smart, hardworking, and comfortable with risk, promising a greater share of the spoils to them than to those who are not. Wrong. That’s not what capitalism is or means. Capitalism is an economic system in which private investors run the economy in search of personal profit, while those who lack capital rely on wage labor to survive. You can debate whether this…

Actually, capitalism is simply an economic system where private citizens can own the means of production. In other words, people can own businesses, and shares in businesses That's it. Nothing else.

Contemporary capitalism also features limited liability, and fractional reserve banking, two policies that are not necessarily part of a generalized capitalism, but would be hard to decouple in any analysis of what is currently going on in capitalism.
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