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The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

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Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#61

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

nine_k wrote: post #54
HashThis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. Elites are allowed to do "money laundering" while commoners are put in jail for it. FinCen exists to put commoners in jail, for the same things the Elites can do without going to jail. The Elites use Shell Companies to do the same tactics. The following have FinCen put commoners in jail, but elites move money the same way via Shell companies and stay out of jail: 1) Breaking up transactions, to hide total amoun…

From your comment, shell companies look like some magical protective gear. Are they that expensive to set up? I think a discerning commoner could consider doing so if the amount of money is enough to certainly trigger AML.

I imagine super cheap and easy to set up. Can't be much more complicated than creating an LLC

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#62

Post by yamtaddle »

nine_k wrote: post #54
HashThis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. Elites are allowed to do "money laundering" while commoners are put in jail for it. FinCen exists to put commoners in jail, for the same things the Elites can do without going to jail. The Elites use Shell Companies to do the same tactics. The following have FinCen put commoners in jail, but elites move money the same way via Shell companies and stay out of jail: 1) Breaking up transactions, to hide total amoun…

From your comment, shell companies look like some magical protective gear. Are they that expensive to set up? I think a discerning commoner could consider doing so if the amount of money is enough to certainly trigger AML.

From what I've gathered from various schemes like this, including smaller-fry ones, it seems like the minimum requirement is to have enough Serious Business Shit going on that you can plausibly mask a bunch of activity (international, ideally) as part of that. Normal people don't.

You've also got to have enough money that any tax authority looking at you decides you'd be an expensive target, so they won't try it unless they're sure it's a slam-dunk.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#63

Post by nine_k »

berjin wrote: post #56
ypeterholmes wrote: post #10

The premise here is very solid- shut down the small number of people that the Oligarchs depend on, and their ability to operate is curtailed much more effectively than trying to attack the oligarchs directly.

Is it a small number? I would guess most jobs in the City of London wouldn't exist if the loopholes were closed.

But the current adversary (Russian oligarchs supporting the current Russian authoritarian president) is more narrowly defined, so the idea is likely more of a specific hit operation than of a complete elimination of the system of loopholes.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#64

Post by nine_k »

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #61
nine_k wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your comment, shell companies look like some magical protective gear. Are they that expensive to set up? I think a discerning commoner could consider doing so if the amount of money is enough to certainly trigger AML.

I imagine super cheap and easy to set up. Can't be much more complicated than creating an LLC

Such was my idea, too. But a peer comment mentions that the scheme only works if there is enough background activity to hide a particular tree in the forest. I'm puzzled.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#65

Post by [deleted] »

nine_k wrote: post #64
zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine super cheap and easy to set up. Can't be much more complicated than creating an LLC

Such was my idea, too. But a peer comment mentions that the scheme only works if there is enough background activity to hide a particular tree in the forest. I'm puzzled.

[deleted]

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#66

Post by nine_k »

yamtaddle wrote: post #62
nine_k wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your comment, shell companies look like some magical protective gear. Are they that expensive to set up? I think a discerning commoner could consider doing so if the amount of money is enough to certainly trigger AML.

From what I've gathered from various schemes like this, including smaller-fry ones, it seems like the minimum requirement is to have enough Serious Business Shit going on that you can plausibly mask a bunch of activity (international, ideally) as part of that. Normal people don't. You've also got to have enough money that any tax authority looking at you decides you'd be an expensive target, so they won't try it unle…

OK, if we assume that it only works if you can hide a small amount of illicit activity in a flurry of legit activity, it can't be such a large problem; maybe you can make 5% of your transactions illicit, but not even 50%. I don't think this is the case with Russian oligarchs right now.

I always had thought that the idea of shell companies is that there is a long chain, or even DAG, of companies that own basically nothing but obligations of other such companies, and the structure is large enough that tracing it back to the original masters and beneficiaries becomes infeasible.

If running a typical no-op LLC is $200-300 a year, running 30 of them is $6-9k, not an entirely trivial amount but quite feasible for anyone interested to hide even mere $200-300k of illicit activities, like selling a moderate-size home.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#67

Post by yourapostasy »

nine_k wrote: post #54
HashThis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. Elites are allowed to do "money laundering" while commoners are put in jail for it. FinCen exists to put commoners in jail, for the same things the Elites can do without going to jail. The Elites use Shell Companies to do the same tactics. The following have FinCen put commoners in jail, but elites move money the same way via Shell companies and stay out of jail: 1) Breaking up transactions, to hide total amoun…

From your comment, shell companies look like some magical protective gear. Are they that expensive to set up? I think a discerning commoner could consider doing so if the amount of money is enough to certainly trigger AML.

> Are they that expensive to set up?

It depends.

Usually it isn't the shell company itself per se that is expensive, it is the professional advice to use it to achieve your desired ends that you pay the big bucks for.

That said, a run of the mill offshore company in runs around $3-5K USD per year in various administrative and filing fees, depending upon your specifics.

Slightly less for a US shell company.

However. In order to avail yourself of advice for various tax minimization tactics and strategies, and have those tax attorneys nearly indemnify you when the IRS comes a-knockin'...now you're talking percentages of AUM. It isn't the specific consultation fees, though those are fairly healthy. These consultants won't really materially help you when the IRS audits you unless you have been running your entire bookkeeping and CPA book of business through them the entire time. Those fees rack up quickly over the years.

Once I worked out their business model and the numbers, it suddenly made sense why the fancy tax minimization strategies were commonly employed only by large companies hiring these folks, large companies with in-house teams like this, or count-the-commas-club UHNWI's. The strategies they shared with me were clever, years later I independently confirmed they would have worked, but I don't have nearly enough FCF to sanely justify using them.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#69

Post by 3np »

yourapostasy wrote: post #67
nine_k wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your comment, shell companies look like some magical protective gear. Are they that expensive to set up? I think a discerning commoner could consider doing so if the amount of money is enough to certainly trigger AML.

> Are they that expensive to set up? It depends. Usually it isn't the shell company itself per se that is expensive, it is the professional advice to use it to achieve your desired ends that you pay the big bucks for. That said, a run of the mill offshore company in runs around $3-5K USD per year in various administrative and filing fees, depending upon your specifics. Slightly less for a US shell company. However. I…

I'd imagine that insights into specifics and knowing who you can trust for what is a major barrier.

Re: The Offshore Networks of Oligarchs

#70

Post by ipaddr »

mikeyouse wrote: post #58
berjin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and they do it under the pretence of solving sexual slavery or child sexual abuse...yet at the same time how many global leaders have visited J.Epstein's island?

Maybe none? There's no evidence that Clinton or Trump ever visited the island, so I guess the 10th in line to the British Throne is probably the closest you can get to a "global leader"?

Trump not mentioned in court. Clinton yes.

Celebrities and high profile figures named in court documents Prince Andrew Alan Dershowitz Emmy Taylor Sarah Kellen Eva Dubin Glen Dubin Jean Luc Brunel Nadia Marcinkova Bill Clinton Marvin Minsky Henry Jarecki Naomi Campbell Ron Eppinger Stephen Hawking

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