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A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

nytimes.com

61–70 of 203 posts

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#61
post #57
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

> Running in a pack is also just easier, not even considering the wind breaking potential depending upon speed and prevailing breeze. It is worth noting that for mid-d races it's not just about countering wind, but also air resistance. There is a significant performance impact even if it's not windy. See for instance https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-draftin... : "Pugh runs some calculations to det…

4:30/mile pace is faster than all but the fastest amateur runners, and the effect would I assume be less at a slower pace. 1s/400m is less than 2 minutes over a marathon, so something, but not a huge amount.

1m behind is also pretty close to be directly behind someone, you'd be liable to kick each other.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#62
As a [semi-serious] road cyclist and occasional racer, this reminds me of the duty of "domestiques" on cycling teams.

It's probably more obvious to this crowd than to the general population, but I'll say: because most of a cyclist's energy is spent fighting air resistance, (road) cycling as a sport is almost entirely about drag management and drafting other cyclists. That's also what makes it a team sport. Riding right behind someone ("on their wheel") in the right circumstances can save ~25-40% energy, and riding in the middle of a well-developed pack can save quite a lot more.

This is very back-of-napkin, in the real world of course varies with many factors: because drag is a square of velocity, this is exceedingly relevant on fast and flat courses but almost totally unimportant at the low speeds of climbs, and of course wind direction influences the outcome greatly, etc. But this is why you see pros riding within inches of each other's wheels. Whether you're trying to stay with foes or are being carried along by friends, you're trying to save energy and avoid being out in the wind.

What you see when you watch your local criterium, or the Tour de France, is teams trying to shield their sprinter from the wind to conserve energy ("save their legs for the sprint"). There are lots of things one can do along the way, from sabotaging other teams' efforts to do the same, to breakaways, etc. But that's the basic idea. Your local group ride of experienced folks isn't too different; they'll generally run "pacelines" and rotate on/off the front, taking turns sharing the workload of pile-driving into the wind ("pulling"), and move everyone along much faster as a result. It's a skill, but when you learn to do it well and have the choreography down, you can ride your bike silly fast. Technique matters at least as much as power.

90% of the people in the TdF are unsung heroes, aren't there to win. It's only natural to assume that the people on the front are winning the race, but, in view of the energy budget in the above theory, they're not. Outside of the last 200 metres or so, anyone on the front of the pack is definitely not winning, and would never win that way. They're working hard for someone else. And for most of them, that's their career right there.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#63
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Pacer" is a common word used to describe many activities that are time limited. It takes the common noun "pace" and a average English speaker )or really even a non native speaker) could figure out "pacer" means "to keep pace".

For someone who does not run marathons, I’d ask why a human would be necessary? People could use smartwatches, or there could be waypoint signs. This is a domain specific thing. Without Googling, did you know what a patternmaker is?

These runners run fast enough that much like cyclists, they get a benefit from following in the aerodynamic drag of another competitor.

Unless there is a pacer none of the runners really want to be in front and eating all the aerodynamic drag. So the race slows down. This greatly favours runners with a faster sprint at the end.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#64
post #59
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes, races without pacers can have exceptionally slow splits (which-- admittedly, leads to a very exciting and tactical conclusion on occasion). The classic example here is the 2016 Olympic 1500m final ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grf_62s_95w ). Centrowitz should not have won that on paper. It ironically seems to have revolutionized the event, in a sense - championships have gotten really fast since.

the part I don't understand is why wouldn't anybody in that 2016 race just run faster at any point? Were they generally thinking "somebody's endurance is better than mine, my only chance is to win a sprint"?

Not necessarily! Leading is more tiring, especially at a fast pace. Even if you are the fastest athlete in the field, and know it, you can still lose by wearing yourself out at the front. So for some runners it's as you say, but for the top few athletes it can be more like "my margin of superiority isn't sufficient to pay the cost of leading a fast race". (Some made-up numbers. Suppose you're 1 second faster than the second-best runner under ideal conditions, but you lose 1.5 seconds by leading. Result: you lose by half a second.) Which is in fact why pacemakers are employed at so many non-championship races, it solves the problem of people thinking "if I push the pace at the front I may pull everyone to a faster time (including myself), but sacrifice place" that leads to results like what you saw in 2016.

That doesn't mean everyone played their hand well in 2016 - clearly they didn't. By the way, check out Centrowitz's little shimmy at maybe 450m to go/2:50 in that race - he made sure to be in front when it got going, that's what makes his run brilliant and not just lucky.

For real examples of leading being a cost in a fast race, see the most recent two major championships - worlds 2022 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcRrBYx2XG8 and the Olympic final of 2020/21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us9bM_WGYlY. Both are really fast as championships go, and in both the leader for much of the race loses. Would they still have lost if someone else had been in front? ...Maybe. But I think it would've been closer.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#65
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

Thanks for this explanation. I'm a newbie runner -- been running for a year-and-a-half.

I'm aiming to break the 2hr mark in my 3rd half-marathon next month. My last half-m in Oct 2022 took 2hr9min. I know, 9 minutes is a lot to shave off :-). I'll first aim to finish healthily.

Your message encourages me to join a pacer. (The last 5KM of a half-m feel endless.)

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Running in a pack is also just easier, not even considering the wind breaking potential depending upon speed and prevailing breeze. It is worth noting that for mid-d races it's not just about countering wind, but also air resistance. There is a significant performance impact even if it's not windy. See for instance https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20823445/does-draftin... : "Pugh runs some calculations to det…

4:30/mile pace is faster than all but the fastest amateur runners, and the effect would I assume be less at a slower pace. 1s/400m is less than 2 minutes over a marathon, so something, but not a huge amount. 1m behind is also pretty close to be directly behind someone, you'd be liable to kick each other.

> 4:30/mile pace is faster than all but the fastest amateur runners

The article is talking about middle distance running, typically 800m-3000m, not long-distance running. 1s/400m is actually pretty huge in competition.

> you'd be liable to kick each other.

Front-to-back contact happens sometimes, even in professional races.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#67
post #50
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

presumably if your "career" is to help other runners get better times, and you beat them, you're fired, your career as a rabbit is over. But of course, your career as a runner is just starting!

It might also be about recovery. Running a full is tiring and they might be expected to run another race soon.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#68

As a [semi-serious] road cyclist and occasional racer, this reminds me of the duty of "domestiques" on cycling teams. It's probably more obvious to this crowd than to the general population, but I'll say: because most of a cyclist's energy is spent fighting air resistance, (road) cycling as a sport is almost entirely about drag management and drafting other cyclists. That's also what makes it a team sport. Riding rig…

I was once motorcycle touring in the Wyoming/Utah/Colorado area with a friend who was riding an old, carbureted Suzuki dual sport that struggled with power at altitude. We found we could significantly increase its top speed and fuel range by drafting it off the "bubble" created by my bike's panniers. Inside the bubble was like the eye of a storm.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#69
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

> speed up a bit on the downhills

That is bad for your knees.

[edit] I highly recommend the book Born to Run by Cristopher McDougall.

Re: A runner who leads every pack and then vanishes

#70
post #45

In an amateur context, I've paced about a half dozen races, half marathon and marathon distance. I've also served as a pacer for runners in the second half of a 100 mile race a couple times. The purpose of a pacer for amateur runners is to set a consistent pace and provide encouragement to runners who may be running their first race at that distance. Or maybe someone trying to set a new PR. Since most courses are not…

Thanks for this explanation. I'm a newbie runner -- been running for a year-and-a-half. I'm aiming to break the 2hr mark in my 3rd half-marathon next month. My last half-m in Oct 2022 took 2hr9min. I know, 9 minutes is a lot to shave off :-). I'll first aim to finish healthily. Your message encourages me to join a pacer. (The last 5KM of a half-m feel endless.)

Stop eating carbs about 2 months before. I did this and went from a 2:06 to 1:58 with minimal training. My body carried several kg less weight and felt like it could consume its own fat energy more efficiently and I didn’t get the 2/3 slump.

I also started last, ran down the 2hr pace guy, then tried to stay 100m ahead of him. It felt primal being chased down by somebody and kept the mind sharp.

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