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Subscription fatigue and related musings

morrick.me

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Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#61

Post by [deleted] »

reaperducer wrote: post #36
radicalriddler wrote: post #21

I'm building an app at the moment, and I'm thinking to myself, "do people really want another subscription, or would they be happier buying credits or something". It's a really tough question to answer, but I'm so pulled to the subscription because it's been so successful for others.

Last year I tried to buy a mahjongg game for my iPad. My requirements: No subscription No hoarding my personal data Updated in the last year or so I couldn't find a single one. They're all subscriptions, slurping up personal information, or not updated in a very long time so they can continue to fly under the radar and not report what data they're selling about me. I'd pay $20, maybe $25 for an app the just let me pl…

[deleted]

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#62

Post by Silverback_VII »

brookst wrote: post #15

Subscriptions align developer and user interests and produce better products and less wasted money in the long run. One-time up front purchases only reward developers for expanding the target market of their product; whether the product improves over time has no bearing on revenue. From a developer’s perspective, the one-time price should be the CLV of what they’d get with a subscription. For users, that means much h…

Nice reasoning but the truth is probably simply that subscriptions generate way more money. Also because not a few ppl forget to cancel their subscriptions.

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#63

Post by photochemsyn »

cglong wrote: post #17

This article misses the elephant in the room: Apple. For years after the App Store launched, developers asked for an integrated way to provide upgrade pricing to help support major upgrades. Instead, they usually had to resort to creating an entirely new entry in the App Store. How many customers were lost because they didn't know they had to go back to the Store to download a separate app named Thing 2? And how many…

It's not just Apple - Microsoft may have led the way with the switch from 'purchase' of Microsoft Office Suite to 'leasing' where you had to pay for a yearly fee to maintain access. That's when I decided to learn Linux and installed LibreOffice.

In the older model, you could purchase hardware and associated software and even if the company stopped supporting either, you still had a basic working system that might last for ten years or more with care. You could still send email, type up documents, send to a printer (that's a whole other story now), and have a useful functional tool, even if a lot of the web would stop working over time.

Now it all seems to be about accelerated obsolescence, ensuring products have short lifetimes to force consumers to adopt the latest products. Backwards compatibility gets dropped, deliberate strategies are introduced to force anyone wanting a banking app on their phone to upgrade to the latest model, etc.

My solution has been to switch over to Linux for almost anything computer-related, except for some business things where you have to interact with the Apple/Microsoft world. Unfortunately mobile phones are much worse and you need to keep updating the mobile phone well before the hardware fails, and even there I occasionally contemplate dropping the smartphone entirely... Can't wait for full Linux-on-mobile.

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#64

Post by morgannewman »

flaburgan wrote: post #51

That's a really "proprietary software " point of view. You pay the developers, the price they decided, and you expect bug fixes and new features. As pointed, this model has many limits. I really prefer the free software one, where I am free to try, use, contribute, so then I can estimate myself how worth is a software, and give an appropriate one time or regular donation. This model is so much better.

Perhaps this is preferable to the user, but if you consider it from the developer's POV, almost no users will contribute meaningful "donations", so it stops making economic sense to follow the latter model you suggest unless the project is an altruistic hobby.

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#65

Post by s1mplicissimus »

swatcoder wrote: post #26
mrtksn wrote: post #4

Some apps that I purchased before in full, later turned into subscription based apps(giving me a year of free subscription). This made me feel bad and I lost my warm and fizzy feelings towards these apps. That said, I understand why they are doing it. It doesn't make sense whatsoever to receive one time payment and provide updates forever. Also, despite that people claim that they want "one time payment apps" that do…

It's interesting that in your thoughtful survey of alternatives, you don't consider simply challenging the assumption "and provide updates forever". Subscriptions do indeed fund perpetual development in a way that one time purchases don't, but the implication that comes along with that is that features are to be added along the way. If you only released maintenance patches, you subscriber satisfaction would dry up re…

You seem to imply that "the ever-growing total cost of ownership" of subscriptions is not ever-growing for the single-purchase model.

Over the years I've noticed that many a software I once 1-off purchased is not supported anymore on my latest (security patched) OS. While technically possible, it's not practical to run that old software on the old OS (corporate security foo, old OS only running on unavailable hardware, etc). So I end up purchasing the next major version regardless of new features.

If we compare the two models in regards to "price for having access to the software for a long timeframe", you pay for compatibility/security updates either way, just in the purchase model the cost curve is a lot bumpier than in the subscription model.

As someone earning a big part of my income from self-developed SaaS subscriptions, I can tell you it's a life changer for my attitude. In the old model there was always this nagging voice in my head. "This customer support ticket is from a customer who last paid me 2 years ago and they don't have a support contract and who knows if they will ever buy the new version."

So while my general ethics are in favor of providing good customer support, the monetary incentives are really stacked against it on the purchase model.

In my experience customers don't want to hear about all the issues we deal with (lib updates, security patches, UI fixes, you people know the drill), they just want to know what the software can do for them and how much it will cost them to have access to it working for a certain amount of time.

Interested to see what others think!

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#66

Post by NikolaNovak »

codetrotter wrote: post #45
NikolaNovak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I would much rather have 20 apps that I pay $10/mo/ea for than to buy one new $600 Right, and that's a fair preference, as long as we understand that some people have different preferences. I'm in completely opposite camp - I'm paying ridiculous amount of money a month for apps that I use once or twice a year. I am also paying money for apps I use all the time but that I'll lose the moment I stop paying. I have fr…

> I have frequently rejected a $5/month app that I would've happily both for $30, even if I know I only need it once and can cancel after a month (utility type software usually). I agree but I also want to point out that it is possible to cancel the subscription right after you start it, and that way you are only charged once and you get to use it for the month that you paid for, without having to remember to cancel…

Logistically that is 100 % true.

Practically I don't do it, cognizant it may not be a rational choice but rather an emotional one (or possibly it is long term rational - I don't want to support that model for apps that don't need updates, further development, or online / server support. E.g. Why is a file duplicate detection app, or file sync app, or data recovery app a monthly fee? If you made it well once I don't need to update it virtually ever - or if I do, than the features must be massive and it's ok to have ver 2 for money. I feel subscription is often a money grab, life fitness hope that people will forget to cancel, rather than some mutual value proposition.)

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#67

Post by macjohnmcc »

ghaff wrote: post #9
macjohnmcc wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I find a product useful and a 1-year subscription is available and doesn't feel expensive I will subscribe, then cancel renewal on it. This forces me to reevaluate if it is worth it every year.

That's a nice theory but a lot of subscriptions are decidedly not cheap on an annual basis ($100+) and there's a lot of potential for money leaks you aren't pro-active about. Though I actually agree that subscriptions as a principle often align developer and user interests.

There has to be a lot of value in it for me to pay that kind of money for temporary usage of software. The closest thing right now is Jetbrains all products pack. I consider every November when the renewal comes up if I am going to continue. Adobe Photographers subscription is a great deal because the total cost for a year is way less than the price it used to cost to buy Photoshop flat out.

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#68

Post by s1mplicissimus »

rebeccaskinner wrote: post #48
louison11 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates have disappeared because most software today is no longer full offline (as was the case of those CD-ROMs you’d use to install softwares back in the days), but a hybrid of offline and online, with a local client making calls to an API. A software company can’t ship a hybrid product and stop running the API, the API has to be kept up, which is often no small feat, and costs money. On top of that, if they had to…

I actually look at this from the other direction: the need to somehow justify a monthly subscription fee has encouraged developers to add further user hostile features, including a move toward owning customers data and forcing customers to share data (often with egregious privacy invasive policies) and makes it harder for customers to interoperable with other software.

my favorite negative example for this move:

YNAB (You need a budget) - https://www.youneedabudget.com/pricing/

they had a perfectly fine working offline app that i gladly upgraded for the full price every time it was available. now it's subcription/online only and i haven't left a dime there since. bye ynab i'm gonna miss you!

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#69

Post by ghaff »

macjohnmcc wrote: post #67
ghaff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a nice theory but a lot of subscriptions are decidedly not cheap on an annual basis ($100+) and there's a lot of potential for money leaks you aren't pro-active about. Though I actually agree that subscriptions as a principle often align developer and user interests.

There has to be a lot of value in it for me to pay that kind of money for temporary usage of software. The closest thing right now is Jetbrains all products pack. I consider every November when the renewal comes up if I am going to continue. Adobe Photographers subscription is a great deal because the total cost for a year is way less than the price it used to cost to buy Photoshop flat out.

Adobe Photographers is actually a pretty reasonable subscription for me. I don't use Photoshop a lot. But I do use it and Lightroom I would do pretty much every upgrade anyway. If I just did the occasional Photoshop thing, I'd probably buy Photoshop Elements (Or use GIMP).

Re: Subscription fatigue and related musings

#70

Post by silvestrov »

jsmith99 wrote: post #12
silvestrov wrote: post #6

A significant problem is that the App Store just says "In App Purchases" on the App page. We don't even get a list of prices and functionality of the IAPs. In EU it is a requirement that: "When you buy goods or services in the EU, you have to be clearly informed about the total price, including all taxes and additional charges." https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/pri... I don't think the App sto…

On my iPhone at least, if I scroll down the app store listing to the app details and expand the IAP section it shows a list of all the IAPs the app offers. The names don't always reveal what they unlock, but sometimes it's clear they are just voluntary donations.

This is so well hidden that I didn't even know the info was there.

It should be next to the price and should have a full explanation instead of just a title. The CandyCrush App I just checked has multiple IAP with the same title and different prices.

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