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Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

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Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#61
post #38

I would not invest in Meta's metaverse future. It feels like Windows Mobile. Meta has the early start, money, captive audience and enthusiasm, but they don't have the hardware/software edge (that Apple coincidentally also has this time around) to really make the idea work. The headsets are not going to revolutionize much running Facebook games on budget Qualcomm SoCs, and Facebook cant buy an Unreal Engine or an M2 P…

I don't think you are wrong. I do think vr is Sony's to lose, though. The number of PlayStations they have in consumers houses is insane. And the new vr2 is quite impressive.

Yeah, Sony has a strong position for sure.

If only consoles could be used for more "workstation" things, including VR. I would have killed for a windows/linux desktop with a PS5 or XSX chip and 24GB-32GB of unified RAM.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#62
post #4

I imagine Meta has a harder time recruiting then their peer companies, because of their reputation and the moral hazard. I wonder how much investment it will take them to get staff levels back to where they are now. It really feels like they are peaking as a company.

[deleted]

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#63

I would not invest in Meta's metaverse future. It feels like Windows Mobile. Meta has the early start, money, captive audience and enthusiasm, but they don't have the hardware/software edge (that Apple coincidentally also has this time around) to really make the idea work. The headsets are not going to revolutionize much running Facebook games on budget Qualcomm SoCs, and Facebook cant buy an Unreal Engine or an M2 P…

Facebook can, and still could totally buy Unity. This is something that they've discussed years before the pandemic or metaverse hype. https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1619818349525086208?s=... From internal emails from Zuck^. Also has a bonus glimpse into their VR/AR strategy

Excerpt from this 2015 email..

"An innovation brand comes from building tangible new products. Our work in VR/AR is the best example we have. Our core social networking work is no longer new, Internet.org is extending something rather than inventing it, and AI is not yet tangible... succeeding in VR/AR has the most innovation potential in the next 5-10 years."

> AI is not yet tangible

Did Meta bet on the wrong horse?

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#64
post #5

One round of layoffs at every company is just coming off the hiring bender of the last few years. But a second... that portends a third... and a general collapse of tech a la the dotcom crash. I had't been too worried yet, despite feeling lucky to have dodged the customary 7% at my company, but this news is starting to make me worry. Hopefully it's just Meta being in a uniquely bad position.

[deleted]

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#65
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you are wrong. I do think vr is Sony's to lose, though. The number of PlayStations they have in consumers houses is insane. And the new vr2 is quite impressive.

It’s also $150 more than the Quest 2 which has also been out for 2.5 years, I don’t really think it’s going to put any sort of dent into the Quest 2s numbers. There’s about 7 million PS5s sold in the last quarter and about 1 million Quest 2s sold in Q2 last year. I somehow doubt that every one of, or even 1/7th of those PS5 owners will spend the cost of a console on PSVR so I would argue that it’s still very much Met…

PSVR and the Quest are kinda different markets.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This whole management heavy culture needs to F off. 9/10 people who wants to be a manager are awful as software engineers and they know this is the only way they can stay in the game. Out of those who do become engineering managers it seems all they do is talk a bunch of nonsense and add tremendous levels of roadblocks because they suck at understanding the actual technical problems and I’ll be honest. They’re usuall…

There is certainly scope for a more intelligent and nuanced discussion to be had here than what reads like a junior engineer's half baked rant on the uselessness of engineering managers. Yes there are awful engineering managers just as there are great ones who are force multipliers for their teams. I've known great engineering managers who were great engineers who naturally became an interface for their teams and som…

Sure, and I'm a staff+ level engineer who has worked at darling unicorns and big media/tech and made a ton of money. I earned that equity payoff. Now I'm working on my own projects and paying for myself to live in SF, so you're free to have whatever opinion.

I know what I'm saying, and out of a dozen plus managers I've worked with over just the last 6 years (re-orgs because they have way too much time on their hands) only 2 have been excellent, and 1 somewhat all right. It isn't my fault that even with terrible engineering managers, I managed to never get below the max rating on any performance review. I know what I know, and I'm good at it.

The bigger companies get, the worse quality of talent that comes in. Most late stage+ employees are there to rest, vest, and cruise. Don't be naive.

The worst part of this is the more and more levels of management that get put in. People start coming in who have spotty technical understandings, but talk a whole lot that sways people who only need a high level understanding of what is going on. Imo this is due to people who cannot operate efficiently nor in a lean manner. Everything needs to be overly complex for them, to prove they’re something.

Again, I'm giving my experience as a competent engineer and I at one point managed 4 people for a few months before I stopped because I was leaving meetings that were a waste of fucking time with other managers. Literally people stroking each other's ego in a passive aggressive way instead of talking business and ensuring their teams succeed. Not to mention the ways they talked about their reports and literal games on how promotions work.

I am super passionate about removing the unnecessary complexity bloat and drama that bad management leads to.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#67
post #60
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A16 should be compared with Snapdragon 8 Gen 1, Samsung and Qualcomm always play this release half year later with “better performance at cost of energy consumption” game.

I don't understand at all where you're coming from. Phones with a SM8450 (Snapdragon 8 gen 1) were available in January, 2022. Phones with A16 were available in September 2022. Phones with a SM8550 (Snapdragon 8 gen 2) were available in January, 2023. You're saying it is unreasonable to compare the last two (4 months apart), and instead the valid comparison is between the first two (8 months apart). That doesn't seem…

You pretty much described the game's timeline, in order for a phone available in September, you have to compete all resources as everybody is competing for the holiday shopping season, the EVT/DVT probably are done latest in May otherwise you will see a major news piece says Apple is having difficulties doing ABC. However, if you push the release date to a few months later into early next year, all the resources along is available idle for you and naturally more buffer everywhere.

Samsung/Qualcomm used to do the "June release / Sep available" model about 10 - 12 years ago, they always lose to Apple from every aspect. So instead of directly compete with the "in cycle" release for the holiday season, they made the release looks earlier in the year, but then compete with a product released last year for the holiday season.

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#69
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook can, and still could totally buy Unity. This is something that they've discussed years before the pandemic or metaverse hype. https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1619818349525086208?s=... From internal emails from Zuck^. Also has a bonus glimpse into their VR/AR strategy

Excerpt from this 2015 email.. "An innovation brand comes from building tangible new products. Our work in VR/AR is the best example we have. Our core social networking work is no longer new, Internet.org is extending something rather than inventing it, and AI is not yet tangible ... succeeding in VR/AR has the most innovation potential in the next 5-10 years." > AI is not yet tangible Did Meta bet on the wrong horse…

FAIR has been one of the best AI labs in the world, with one of the godfathers of AI leading it. What do you mean by "bet on the wrong horse?"

Re: Another Round of Layoffs at Meta

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is certainly scope for a more intelligent and nuanced discussion to be had here than what reads like a junior engineer's half baked rant on the uselessness of engineering managers. Yes there are awful engineering managers just as there are great ones who are force multipliers for their teams. I've known great engineering managers who were great engineers who naturally became an interface for their teams and som…

Sure, and I'm a staff+ level engineer who has worked at darling unicorns and big media/tech and made a ton of money. I earned that equity payoff. Now I'm working on my own projects and paying for myself to live in SF, so you're free to have whatever opinion. I know what I'm saying, and out of a dozen plus managers I've worked with over just the last 6 years (re-orgs because they have way too much time on their hands)…

I don't know why you feel the need to give people your background/ability/level to bolster your argument. I'm sure you can string together a coherent argument without the need for an appeal to authority. I'm not calling you a junior engineer, merely observing that the quality of the argument you are making being worthy of a junior engineer's rant.

>The bigger companies get, the worse quality of talent that comes in. Most late stage+ employees are there to rest, vest, and cruise. Don't be naive.

Straw-manning much? I don't see any part of my original argument making a point to the contrary or even addressing the notion of org size.

But I'll bite -> An alternative way of looking at this dynamic in large tech orgs is, that the org sets up a game where people who play the game well can succeed (interview well, do what looks good on impact resumes and against perf rubrics ) without contributing much to the success of the org.

Blame the game not the player, the rest and vesters are resting and vesting because they are achieving optimal utility within the interview/perf/promo game the org has setup, hence dysfunctional orgs.

It's not that flat organisations/startup aren't dysfunctional or that large orgs always end up being dysfunctional but I agree with you that larger engineering orgs often tend to be dysfunctional in many similar ways.

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