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Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

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Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#61

Post by quest88 »

jonas21 wrote: post #51
shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

> just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Presumably, that's what the return to office plan is trying to fix. Right now, if you go into the office, you're spending a lot of time in zoom calls because half the people in every meeting aren't there. If everyone's in the office, you can just meet in person.

Yes in theory you could. I've found it different in practice. Not everyone sits in the same building or on the same floor, and meeting rooms are limited. So you still end up on zoom calls, but now you've commuted.

I sometimes wonder if execs forget what it's like not to have an assistant, or if they've forgotten the power they have so that people _want_ to be in the same room as them. Or maybe they simply like seeing on the peons that work for them.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#62

Post by modoc »

laidoffamazon wrote: post #34
base698 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company hired and promised whole orgs and teams remote work for the last two years, many in areas with no Amazon offices. Some were tied to offices 3+ hours away on paper, but during recruiting were promised never returned to office. Others have remote only as a condition of their employment. When your recruiter, boss, director, VP are all remote and promising a remote only employment, what are you supposed to th…

There's no evidence that remote-only ("Virtual location") employees have to ever go to the office. It's really just people that would have had an office before that had a loose RTO policy since like 2021.

The issue is that Andy Jassy letter isn't clear on this, or many other specifics, so there's a lot of concern due to lack of clarity.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#63

Post by outside1234 »

jonas21 wrote: post #51
shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

> just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Presumably, that's what the return to office plan is trying to fix. Right now, if you go into the office, you're spending a lot of time in zoom calls because half the people in every meeting aren't there. If everyone's in the office, you can just meet in person.

Except that now teams are divided across sites, so not even sure you can make the statement that if everyone showed up in person that it wouldn't still be a Teams call.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#64

Post by nixass »

posguy wrote: post #44
shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

*Amazon Chime, not Zoom :D

Press pound key

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#65

Post by x86x87 »

eurticket wrote: post #29
x86x87 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm... the complaints are getting old? I guess the beatings need to continue until morale improves. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/traditi... Hard disagree with "If you were hired with the expectation that you go in the office, RTO is an eventual expected outcome." Ask yourself why do we need to RTO? Who needs the RTO?

we should all read between the lines, this big push is from those that invest in the office buildings and surrounding businesses chains, and are hurting from lower proximity of consumers. Stop making your own meals, start consuming from their fast food chain down the block from the building theyre leasing to your company. Stop for gas and buy from their other investments close by. Need people to stop being so self su…

i agree that things are shifting. forcing everyone to the old routine that is worse for them, worse for the environment and worse for the tech corporations that are peddling this is insane.

Gas? If we consume less gas that's good right?

Less wear an tear on the cars? Good

Not wasting 1-2 hours commuting? Great

Having a quiet place where you can gather your thoughts and do knowledge work? Amazing

But what about the hard working real estate companies that are going to be impacted by this? What about the small businesses? What about them? Close shop and/or figure out something else that works. Why does everyone have to have a crappier life for you to continue with your crap practices?

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#66

Post by paxys »

jonas21 wrote: post #51
shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

> just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Presumably, that's what the return to office plan is trying to fix. Right now, if you go into the office, you're spending a lot of time in zoom calls because half the people in every meeting aren't there. If everyone's in the office, you can just meet in person.

> If everyone were in the office, you could just meet in person.

How many people in tech nowadays do day-to-day work only with people in the same city as them? At my company at least that number is close to 0. Return to office doesn't mean you can stop collaborating with employees in another part of the country or the world. It will just be all that much more painful to do because now you'll have to hunt for empty meeting rooms all day to take calls from.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#67

Post by x86x87 »

rtp4me wrote: post #43
x86x87 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm... the complaints are getting old? I guess the beatings need to continue until morale improves. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/traditi... Hard disagree with "If you were hired with the expectation that you go in the office, RTO is an eventual expected outcome." Ask yourself why do we need to RTO? Who needs the RTO?

Don't ask yourself or your neighbor. Ask your company why they want you to RTO. Who needs the RTO? Apparently, the company does. This is why they are asking people to return...

hah. i did ask. I also did ask about the metrics that are used to measure productivity. Do you want to hear what the answer was? crickets!

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#68

Post by plorkyeran »

xivzgrev wrote: post #35

"For instance, some employees who are part of global teams will come into the office only to continue taking virtual meetings, and they may not even have a coworker in their office, the petition states." My company is RTO, but with teams across offices, so I know this pain all too well. Our leadership has not addressed this disconnect either, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

I guess the obvious question is that if no one on your team is in the same office as you, who will even notice if you don't show up to the office? As long as your direct manager is on board, it seems easy to just disregard the RTO requirement and keep working from home.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#69

Post by generalpf »

bitL wrote: post #47
x86x87 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imho Amazon has a big problem with its image and hiring. It is literally impossible to find good developers that want to work for Amazon. Taking advantage of the current market conditions to do this is going to spectacularly backfire once the market recovers.

Given Meta and Google are slowly turning into another Amazon (e.g. by an influx of Amazon managers bringing their "culture" with them) and Amazon is now paying competitive, I don't think that would be a big medium-term problem for them.

I worked for a mid-cap tech company that brought in Amazon and Salesforce senior leadership in 2021. The culture immediately eroded as these guys’ penchant for finger-pointing and hustling beyond a reasonable human’s capacity became clear.
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