Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA • Hacker News Board

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#61

Post by nitrogen » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:15 AM UTC

saulrh wrote: post #48

kiba wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For last couple of centuries or so, each generation grows up with unprecedented change in their lifetime. For example, I enter elementary school, the internet started to take off and browsers were primitive. Nowadays, we can enjoy the convenience of movie streaming, fast browsers, and extraordinary rich video games(Dwarf Fortress, I am looking at you). So it doesn't make sense to me that congressmen are literal dinos…

For last couple of centuries or so, each generation grows up with unprecedented change in their lifetime. I'd argue that this generation's changes aren't just unprecedented, but in an entirely different category. Not just in size, but in speed and extent. The cell phone alone is the most fundamental change in society in human history; suddenly, every person on earth can communicate instantly with almost any other per…

I'd argue that this generation is seeing a larger change than any before.

So long as we continue on our trend of exponential technological growth, this will be tautologically true.

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#62

Post by galaktor » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:23 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #54

galaktor wrote: post #29

The video linked in the article was not available here (Ireland), so for all others affected, this should be it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSc9eKOcH3w

It's funny because it is available in Romania/Europe.

Last time I checked, Ireland was still part of Europe :-)

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#63

Post by DJN » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:23 AM UTC

lusr wrote: post #46

cpeterso wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An analogy for software development I've heard is to imagine building the Empire State building but with your view limited to a 15" glass portal. You must remember the off screen portions of the "building" in your head.

My current favourite is to describe it like this: You have to build a puzzle. Problem is nobody really knows what the puzzle should look like. Instead you get a few hundred pages of documentation written by a bunch of people who don't really know much more about the puzzle than you do describing how they think PARTS of the puzzle should look like in the end - based on discussions they've had with people who have no i…

That's it. I'm puzzled.

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#64

Post by iliis » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:25 AM UTC

timthorn wrote: post #56

saulrh wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For last couple of centuries or so, each generation grows up with unprecedented change in their lifetime. I'd argue that this generation's changes aren't just unprecedented, but in an entirely different category. Not just in size, but in speed and extent. The cell phone alone is the most fundamental change in society in human history; suddenly, every person on earth can communicate instantly with almost any other per…

> The cell phone alone is the most fundamental change in society in human history What about the railways?

Oh, trains are pretty fundamental and changed a lot. But a device so small it fits into your pocket, let's you communicate in real time with almost everybody, takes pictures and even movies (and sends them around the world), precisely calculates not only time but your location on the whole earth, can recognize speech, songs, books and other stuff, is able to translate fast between common languages, oh, and it let's you access the whole knowledge of our entire species wherever and whenever you want...

I mean, I love railways, I really do, but compared to a thing like our cell phones? It would even be possible (altough quite cumbersome), to entirely live just from this thing! (Do some programming/webdesign/consulting/whatever to make money, order food and everything else online and you don't have to do anything else.)

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#65

Post by bad_user » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:31 AM UTC

galaktor wrote: post #62

bad_user wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny because it is available in Romania/Europe.

Last time I checked, Ireland was still part of Europe :-)

That's why I said Romania. Most online content is usually blocked for me. Even YouTube wouldn't allow me for a long time to create an account tied with Google Apps, as the feature wasn't available in my country.

That's why I said it is funny - usually these websites are excluding everything but the US with maybe Germany and UK added later. However in this instance I think they've got a black list - as in, allow everyone except these countries, like Ireland (allow all versus disallow all + exceptions).

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#66

Post by wladimir » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:34 AM UTC

ColdAsIce wrote: post #34

pinaceae wrote: post #17

it points to a big shift in society and the economy. software is now a cornerstone of the world economy. modern life runs through the internet. even if you personally avoid the internet, you depend on it. but the baby boomer generation, represented by these politicians has not understood it. they know engineers as the guys building houses, bridges, aeroplanes, rockets. but software? it is an invisible world to them.…

This is not a generational issue, this same kind of political issue has existed in all times in various forms. It is an issue of power and control, power to control distribution channels and who may produce what and when. Or framed in a better way, before the internet it was about the radio and before that it was about the telegram. The radio was not allowed to be free, pirate stations where setup all over the place…

Agreed; this is not a generational issue, but a world-view issue. Centrally controlled versus free (as in freedom) and distributed. Centralized versus decentralized.

The same kind of "battles" are happening this very moment around:

- Food (organic/independent versus bio-industry)

- Radio spectrum (free-for-all versus monopolies)

- Currency (many distributed ones versus one central controlled world currency)

- Identity (pseudonymous/anonymous versus centralized identity)

- Equality (equal rights versus centralization of power)

- Wealth (equally distributed versus concentrated to a few families)

- Software (open source versus closed source)

And so on... last decades, the trend seems to be toward centralization in each of them. However, for people to go along with that requires trust in the controlling entity. For example, trust that it is guided by a fair democratic process, or by "enlightened self-interest".

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#67

Post by ajuc » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:38 AM UTC

tfb wrote: post #55

trentmb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, however, they're laughing at you, not with you.

The joke is on them, however. "Nerds" always win in the end. This whole SOPA thing - or variations thereof - will only be small hiccup in the grand scheme of things. The advancement of technology and its ensuing freedom will trump any current setbacks. When the older generations move on and those who have grown up with the power of technology at their fingertips are in power, who have relatively open minds and unders…

> The advancement of technology and its ensuing freedom will trump any current setbacks. When the older generations move on and those who have grown up with the power of technology at their fingertips are in power, who have relatively open minds and understand the freedoms that technology provides, I think we'll really see some accelerated progression in both tech and overall quality of life for everyone.

I'd like this to happen, but this seems to me very similiar to each past generation idee fix.

First christians in Rome in first century thought when everybody will convert, there would be obviously no sins, and it will be almost haeven on earth. They were right with conversion dynamic, but wrong with the social implications.

The same for revolutionists, romantic nationalists, liberals, communists, hippies, and now it's our turn. Every time the change happened, but the consequences were not exactly as bright, as young idealists predicted.

I'd put my money on this time being exactly the same.

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#68

Post by zem » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:40 AM UTC

saulrh wrote: post #48

kiba wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For last couple of centuries or so, each generation grows up with unprecedented change in their lifetime. For example, I enter elementary school, the internet started to take off and browsers were primitive. Nowadays, we can enjoy the convenience of movie streaming, fast browsers, and extraordinary rich video games(Dwarf Fortress, I am looking at you). So it doesn't make sense to me that congressmen are literal dinos…

For last couple of centuries or so, each generation grows up with unprecedented change in their lifetime. I'd argue that this generation's changes aren't just unprecedented, but in an entirely different category. Not just in size, but in speed and extent. The cell phone alone is the most fundamental change in society in human history; suddenly, every person on earth can communicate instantly with almost any other per…

"human history" covers a lot of territory. in terms of fundamental changes, nothing comes close to agriculture (let population densities skyrocket, enabled pyramid-style social setups) and writing (let knowledge accumulate rapidly from generation to generation).

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#69

Post by timthorn » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:47 AM UTC

iliis wrote: post #64

timthorn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cell phone alone is the most fundamental change in society in human history What about the railways?

Oh, trains are pretty fundamental and changed a lot. But a device so small it fits into your pocket, let's you communicate in real time with almost everybody, takes pictures and even movies (and sends them around the world), precisely calculates not only time but your location on the whole earth, can recognize speech, songs, books and other stuff, is able to translate fast between common languages, oh, and it let's y…

Clearly mobiles enable much faster communication - but in terms of societal change I believe the railways were much more important. Not only did it enable news/mail to travel much more quickly, but for the first time large numbers of people could easily visit areas beyond their immediate neigbourhood, and goods could be transported large distances within a day. It revolutionised farming and enabled the growth of cities.

Re: Jon Stewart calls out congressional nerd bashing over SOPA

#70

Post by dspillett » Fri, Jan 20, 2012, 10:54 AM UTC

saulrh wrote: post #48

kiba wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For last couple of centuries or so, each generation grows up with unprecedented change in their lifetime. For example, I enter elementary school, the internet started to take off and browsers were primitive. Nowadays, we can enjoy the convenience of movie streaming, fast browsers, and extraordinary rich video games(Dwarf Fortress, I am looking at you). So it doesn't make sense to me that congressmen are literal dinos…

For last couple of centuries or so, each generation grows up with unprecedented change in their lifetime. I'd argue that this generation's changes aren't just unprecedented, but in an entirely different category. Not just in size, but in speed and extent. The cell phone alone is the most fundamental change in society in human history; suddenly, every person on earth can communicate instantly with almost any other per…

* > I'd argue that this generation is seeing a larger change than any before.*

I don't think the cell phone is that significant on its own, though it is up there with the changes others have mentioned.

What this generation is seeing isn't one massive change: it is seeing a greater concentration of significant changes than previous generations, and some of those changes when grouped together have greater impact than they would individually.