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Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#61

Post by kitsunesoba »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #7
LesZedCB wrote: post #2

i was expecting to find something about society-wide chronic stress, lo and behold > And chronic stress has been found to deplete the body of the energy it needs to make milk. lets just say our profit and growth driven society is not structured to nurture humans, neither grown nor newborn.

I'm surprised we're more stressed now than humans from thousands of years ago who somehow managed to produce plenty of breast-milk. They didn't have as much safety from pillaging tribes, hungry animals, they didn't have antibiotics, anesthesia or life-saving surgeries. They didn't have access to a grocery store a short drive away, or a fire department. Can all of the advancements in human QoL above be undone by turni…

I would say that modern stressors, while each not as stressful as many of those present early in humanity's history, are both far more numerous and omnipresent. Many are arguably less actionable, too — there are many things one can do to help reduce chances of food hardship or being eaten by a tiger but almost nothing we can do to e.g. radically change our economical standing or influence national or global politics. That's not to mention things like the pressures of expectations from family and friends, competition from peers, etc…

All of these stressors amalgamate into a chronic "fuzz stress" that has no form and no distinguishable source that constantly sits in the back of the minds of the collective public and is very difficult to expunge because doing that would require addressing all of the individual contributors, which is for all practical purposes impossible without sweeping societal change.

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#62

Post by ldayley »

generaltsos wrote: post #25
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #4

I think it's almost unfathomable for us to imagine how far we are from a "traditional" homosapien life. I read a book called "Hunt, Gather, Parent" where they describe the life of multiple 'less developed' societies, and how they spent a large portion of their life interacting with babies, adolescents, older children, pregnant relations. It's a miracle people are still able to reproduce at all given our isolation fro…

Reproduction isn't the hard part, from what I can tell! It's everything after the reproduction occurs that is tough.

I understand the cheekiness of this comment, but reproduction in many societies has indeed become more difficult for many of the same reasons (among several others). The sex hormones that orchestrate lactation and mother-child bonding are largely the same that regulate menstrual cycles, sexual desire, pregnancy, and childbirth. If disruptions to these hormone balances are found to be a major cause in an increase in breastfeeding issues, then this likely correlates strongly with issues effecting the entire reproduction “stack”, if you will.

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#63

Post by mturmon »

Best observation I heard relating to this is:

As a new parent you go to class for the delivery experience, an experience which lasts for a day or so and is well-supported while it happens by all kinds of staff. You also get a couple of classes on breastfeeding, an experience which lasts for months and is very poorly supported while it happens.

The emphasis is off -- as noted by the OP when it observes that we know far more about cow milk than breast milk.

And of course, there has been a lot of back-and-forth (google term: Mommy wars) on practices and expectations around breastfeeding.

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#64

Post by zo1 »

my_usernam3 wrote: post #43
abfan1127 wrote: post #6

anecdotally, my wife struggled to breastfeed our first born. The hospital lactation consultant wasn't very helpful. Ultimately, we found another who's knowledge and bedside manner was very good. I'd hypothesize the lack of generational homes leads to lack of information for new moms. Add on stress about things like jobs, careers, family expectations, and it becomes very difficult.

Spread some of that tribal knowledge, what worked for her?

Not OP, but one bit that helped for us was insisting that our second newborn doesn't get given a "pacifier" to stop crying (which the nurses all want to do at the hospital because something something... quiet). My best guess is that it makes the baby "lazy" and used to "easy sucking", so they don't try hard enough on a real nipple.

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#65

Post by _oghd »

this_user wrote: post #59
tstrimple wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the nature of a capitalist society. It's right in the definition. > an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

You make it sound like there is a difference between capitalism and human nature, but there really isn't. Capitalism is merely an institutionalised expression of the latter, hence its longevity. Humans by their very nature possess the instinct to outcompete their rivals as a result of millions of years of evolution. Anyone who was not like that, was removed from the gene pool by those who were either by taking their…

longevity? uh... no. capitalism is very young in human society.

for clarity, feudalism lasted twice as long as capitalism has currently existed.

and while competition has dominated the scientific and cultural narrative for a while, that's not the exclusive interpretation, or even necessarily the best or correct one.

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#66

Post by gjsman-1000 »

falcolas wrote: post #60
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #4

I think it's almost unfathomable for us to imagine how far we are from a "traditional" homosapien life. I read a book called "Hunt, Gather, Parent" where they describe the life of multiple 'less developed' societies, and how they spent a large portion of their life interacting with babies, adolescents, older children, pregnant relations. It's a miracle people are still able to reproduce at all given our isolation fro…

Forget the isolation; western civilization all but requires two income earners to have a "median" life. There's remarkably little time or money to raise a child. Median individual income: $40,000, poverty level for "replacement" families (two adults, two children): $30,000.

Funny enough, Elizabeth Warren wrote a book about it, The Two-Income Trap, in 2004.

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#67

Post by ye-olde-sysrq »

falcolas wrote: post #60
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #4

I think it's almost unfathomable for us to imagine how far we are from a "traditional" homosapien life. I read a book called "Hunt, Gather, Parent" where they describe the life of multiple 'less developed' societies, and how they spent a large portion of their life interacting with babies, adolescents, older children, pregnant relations. It's a miracle people are still able to reproduce at all given our isolation fro…

Forget the isolation; western civilization all but requires two income earners to have a "median" life. There's remarkably little time or money to raise a child. Median individual income: $40,000, poverty level for "replacement" families (two adults, two children): $30,000.

worth noting that 2 children is below replacement rate, so someone needs to be having 3 kids too. which is becoming increasingly uncommon especially because of how many things change between 2 and 3 kids. (Notably: 2 carseats fit in ~any vehicle. 3 fit in very few vehicles unless you rush the oldest into a booster seat.)

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#68

Post by MandieD »

roland35 wrote: post #30

Breastfeeding isn't easy! Some babies just never really get it, and if you don't start right away it's hard to produce enough breast milk.

I was about to be the third generation of women who relied on formula (grandmother tried and failed at age 20 around 1940 despite plenty of help from her mother, mother didn’t bother at 35 in 1980), but for a modern miracle: portable, configurable milk pumps, good accessories, and something of a data-driven mindset. If one takes this “exclusive pumping” route, or something close (we supplemented with formula as needed early on), you better track production, consumption and baby weight.

Formula now is better than formula in 1980 and far better than formula in 1940, so no one should feel bad about using it, but I don’t regret the effort I put in. I think it’s a lot of why, unlike said grandmother and mother, I got back down to my pre-pregnancy weight without much other effort.

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#69

Post by baremetal »

falcolas wrote: post #60
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #4

I think it's almost unfathomable for us to imagine how far we are from a "traditional" homosapien life. I read a book called "Hunt, Gather, Parent" where they describe the life of multiple 'less developed' societies, and how they spent a large portion of their life interacting with babies, adolescents, older children, pregnant relations. It's a miracle people are still able to reproduce at all given our isolation fro…

Forget the isolation; western civilization all but requires two income earners to have a "median" life. There's remarkably little time or money to raise a child. Median individual income: $40,000, poverty level for "replacement" families (two adults, two children): $30,000.

“Almost a quarter of U.S. children under the age of 18 live with one parent and no other adults (23%), more than three times the share of children around the world who do so (7%) … “In comparison, 3% of children in China, 4% of children in Nigeria and 5% of children in India live in single-parent households." [1]

[1]https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/single-parent-day.ht...

Re: Many women struggle to breastfeed. Scientists are starting to ask why

#70

Post by falcolas »

ye-olde-sysrq wrote: post #67
falcolas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget the isolation; western civilization all but requires two income earners to have a "median" life. There's remarkably little time or money to raise a child. Median individual income: $40,000, poverty level for "replacement" families (two adults, two children): $30,000.

worth noting that 2 children is below replacement rate, so someone needs to be having 3 kids too. which is becoming increasingly uncommon especially because of how many things change between 2 and 3 kids. (Notably: 2 carseats fit in ~any vehicle. 3 fit in very few vehicles unless you rush the oldest into a booster seat.)

FWIW, the poverty level for a 3 child household is $35k. ($44k in Alaska, $40k in Hawaii)

Probably doesn't count the vehicle troubles, but more the added food, board, and transportation in general.

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