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“Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

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61–70 of 371 posts

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#61
What headline to expect next?

"Open Source Air molecules Loosen Big Air's Grip on World's Breathing Population"

Abusing intellectual property concepts to effectively feudalise society is not a good design. "Big Ag" has been granted a license to operate. This license could be taken away.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#62
post #56

Most people support patents because they have this romanticized notion of some little guy in his garage inventing the next light bulb. That’s not representative of the mass offensive and defensive patterns of use by modern corporations. We should just end patents, period.

Something something baby bathwater.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#63
post #54
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he got sued by the patent holding company for using those seeds and then spraying them with Roundup , which would have killed off his crop had they not been the patented seeds. This is true of all the cases of people being sued for cultivating "Roundup-Ready" crops: the story they want to tell is that they were sued for cultivating seeds that accidentally wound up on their fields, but the facts established at tri…

What is a farmer to do when mother nature infects his crop, against his will, with pollen from the GMO crop? I think the lawsuit should go the other way. Monsanto should pay for destroying the ability to grow heirloom seeds without getting infected. They want to keep it protected? Then require it to be grown in quarantine.

If you want to keep roundup ready crops from spreading among your heirloom crops, I would recommend against spraying the heirloom crops with roundup.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#64

Cool and all, but there's not a single mention of "hybrid" on the entire page, which means that this is not targeted at the majority of, say, US agriculture. The general public does not understand agriculture well, and I've noticed that this misunderstanding is stronger among those that have huge huge concerns about seeds and GMOs. Hybridization is a huge benefit, one of the primary reasons to use seeds from somebody…

> returned from ag use for ecological restoration.

We don’t really do that. If anything, the opposite now that the land yields more value.

Largely we just use the excess to feed animals (ie: 90% energy loss) or ethanol/biodiesel (ie: using land as a 2-3% efficient solar panel, along with lots of inputs).

Something like 75% of US corn goes into the above 2.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#65
post #20

I remember, there was a case where a farmer grew patented plants on his field. They spread to his neighbours field who then got sued by the patent holding company for not licensing that plant. My memory is a bit fuzzy here but you get the idea. Now, how about reversing that? Think of a GPL-like licensed plant that makes all derived plants also inheriting that license. Legally poisoning the binary distribution format…

> I remember, there was a case where a farmer grew patented plants on his field. They spread to his neighbours field who then got sued by the patent holding company for not licensing that plant. My memory is a bit fuzzy here but you get the idea. You are thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc_v_Schmeise... . He is often heralded by anti-GMO activists as an example of the dangers of GMOs and Mon…

> He deliberately took cultivars from his neighbour's plot

You mean stole? Where do you see this in the link you provided?

That's what I read in the article.

> As established in the original Federal Court trial decision, Percy Schmeiser, a canola breeder and grower in Bruno, Saskatchewan, first discovered Roundup-resistant canola in his crops in 1997.[4] He had used Roundup herbicide to clear weeds around power poles and in ditches adjacent to a public road running beside one of his fields, and noticed that some of the canola which had been sprayed had survived. Schmeiser then performed a test by applying Roundup to an additional 3 acres (12,000 m2) to 4 acres (16,000 m2) of the same field. He found that 60% of the canola plants survived. At harvest time, Schmeiser instructed a farmhand to harvest the test field. That seed was stored separately from the rest of the harvest, and used the next year to seed approximately 1,000 acres (4 km²) of canola.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a farmer with experience growing roundup-ready crops: In order to obtain roundup-ready seeds you have to sign a contract with the vender. In said agreement, you agree to not do such things. If you want to do whatever you want with your field, don't enter into contractual agreements where you agree to follow certain rules.

> As a farmer with experience growing roundup-ready crops: In order to obtain roundup-ready seeds you have to sign a contract with the vender. In said agreement, you agree to not do such things. The farmer had not entered into any contract with anyone, that is the point. It's not his fault if pollen from his neighbor's field entered his field, even if they contained "patented" technology.

If you are referring to a case where litigation was executed under the terms of patent contract, the farmer – being a member of the public who grants such patents – has still entered into a contract by virtue of choosing to be a member of the public who has agreed that patent contracts are desirable to issue. The public had no obligation to issue the patent, but chose to. The farmer need not be a member of that public, but chose to be.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#67
post #56

Most people support patents because they have this romanticized notion of some little guy in his garage inventing the next light bulb. That’s not representative of the mass offensive and defensive patterns of use by modern corporations. We should just end patents, period.

or end the offensive/defensive patterns used by modern corporations?

someone invents a thing, someone else uses thing for evil. what to do? we ban the thing!!! yes, of course, that's the solution. don't punish the one that did the evil.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#68
post #43
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he got sued by the patent holding company for using those seeds and then spraying them with Roundup , which would have killed off his crop had they not been the patented seeds. This is true of all the cases of people being sued for cultivating "Roundup-Ready" crops: the story they want to tell is that they were sued for cultivating seeds that accidentally wound up on their fields, but the facts established at tri…

But how did he get enough seeds by chance to have his whole field be round up ready?

He planted a field next to someone else's roundup ready crop. He then collected the seeds from the whole field. Next year he planted the seeds collected, waiting for the crop to start growing and sprayed roundup, which killed all seeds not roundup ready. Then the new crop went to seed and since all the parents were roundup ready, the seeds also were roundup ready (I'm not sure if roundup ready is a recessive or dominate trait, which will influence which % is roundup ready using basic genetics). Those final seeds were collected and were enough to have a whole field that was roundup ready next year.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#69
post #62
post #56

Most people support patents because they have this romanticized notion of some little guy in his garage inventing the next light bulb. That’s not representative of the mass offensive and defensive patterns of use by modern corporations. We should just end patents, period.

Something something baby bathwater.

I think that baby died a long time ago.

Re: “Open source” seeds loosen Big Ag’s grip on farmers

#70
post #56

Most people support patents because they have this romanticized notion of some little guy in his garage inventing the next light bulb. That’s not representative of the mass offensive and defensive patterns of use by modern corporations. We should just end patents, period.

I personally know several people who were able to start successful careers solely based on their inventions and the protections afforded to them via patents. This seems extremely short sighted. In fact, the bigger issue to me is that patents don't matter for companies located in countries where they are not recognized (e.g. China). The biggest issue with "some little guy in his garage" inventing stuff these days is that within weeks of selling it on amazon, it'll be copied, cost reduced to a essentially non-functional version, and sold for 1/3 the price all while pushing him down in the search results via borderline illegal SEO strategies.

The patent system needs to be fixed, not done away with.

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