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Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

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Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#61

Walmart now sells Novo Nordisk produced insulin for $17 per pen[0]. I have a hard time believing California will do it cheaper than that. [0] https://www.walmart.com/cp/relion-diabetic-care/3769564

As someone with little actual knowledge of different insulin, I've been told that the cheaper one that Walmart sells is significantly harder to manager and you tend to end up going through lots of spikes & dips with it, which while enough to still live for some is pretty debilitating.

Hopefully California is planning on doing a different style of insulin that better manages that?

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#62
post #36

Reflecting a common theme in our healthcare system, the problem of insulin costs is very unevenly distributed: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/out-of-pocket-spen... . About 3 in 4 enrollees in ACA plans that use insulin pay $35/month or less out of pocket. For people with private insurance, 4 in 5 pay $35/month or less. The biggest problem seems to be too many plans, too many choices, and too many ways to f…

Is the $35 the amount the patient pays, or is it the total amount paid for the insulin?

It's still a despicable racket if the patient only pays $35, but the insurance company is paying $500.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#64
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Could someone against the idea of providing food for children at school explain their position? I'm interested to hear why you think children should go hungry if their parents don't give them cash to bring to school.

As someone who grew up in country with such policies it is easy - it creates bad incentives for school cafeterias. They can push quality of food down, because they have monopoly for government food money. So the food is barely eatable, you could buy much better food over the street (or just eat at home), but then you have to pay the full price.

Also it discriminates against people with strong dietary preferences. E.g. if you are a vegetarian, and school cafeteria does not offer vegetarian food, it is no government food money to you.

Also, fair question is not 'free food in school cafeterias or not', the fair question compares equally expensive alternatives: 'should this government money go to parents as child benefits, or to school cafeterias for free food'.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#65

Walmart now sells Novo Nordisk produced insulin for $17 per pen[0]. I have a hard time believing California will do it cheaper than that. [0] https://www.walmart.com/cp/relion-diabetic-care/3769564

I thought that insulin was the rapid one and not the long lasting one. I think a lot of people had put themselves into diabetic shock by using that one instead of the one they needed...because it was cheap. https://theconversation.com/why-telling-people-with-diabetes...

This is the more modern insulin analog, insulin aspart (sold branded as "Novolog"). It is fast acting, and has a different treatment approach than traditional human "regular" insulin. Using it incorrectly or recklessly definitely risks a hypoglycemic incident, which can be fatal. Selling this under the ReliOn brand is new, and it is relatively affordable compared to the sticker prices for the branded versions (upwards of $300 for a box of 5 pens, vs. the $73 walmart is offering)

Walmart also sells, and has for a while, "regular" human insulin under their "ReliOn" brand, which is $25/vial. This is an older style of insulin, less flexible and reactive, and requires a more restrictive lifestyle to make it work . Not following this restrictive diet schedule and rules can put you at risk of a hypoglycemic incident, which can be fatal.

There are other kinds of insulin analogs, including a "slow acting" variety called insulin glargine (sold under the brand names Basaglar, Lantus, etc). It serves to smooth the overall curve of blood sugar on a given day. My own treatment regime includes both insulin aspart and insulin glargine. I do not believe Walmart sells any insulin glargine (yet?)

For what it's worth, as an additional piece of information, a Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM) is another modern tool in the treatment arsenal. They are also incredibly expensive, especially without insurance, but have saved my life several times when I made mistakes or just had bad luck with a dose of insulin aspart, and went very low. Being able to see myself starting to go low, rather than simply reacting when it is too late and I am already affected, is a significant aid.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Nordic Model isn't socialism!" "OK, so let's implement their policies." "No, that's socialism!" (cribbed from a meme; https://twitter.com/pty/status/1109687920938541057 )

Confusing. The people saying "The Nordic Model isn't socialism!" are the people who are responding to "No, that's socialism!" Saying that the nordic model isn't socialism is a response to those who oppose it by saying it is, an attempt to persuade anti-socialists to chill out.

> Saying that the nordic model isn't socialism is a response to those who oppose it by saying it is, an attempt to persuade anti-socialists to chill out.

No, that's not true. For example, the Heritage Foundation: https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/the-myth-s...

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#67
post #36

Reflecting a common theme in our healthcare system, the problem of insulin costs is very unevenly distributed: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/out-of-pocket-spen... . About 3 in 4 enrollees in ACA plans that use insulin pay $35/month or less out of pocket. For people with private insurance, 4 in 5 pay $35/month or less. The biggest problem seems to be too many plans, too many choices, and too many ways to f…

I think a part of the trick here too is that this report does not appear to discriminate between Type 1 (where insulin is required, and the amount required varies significantly and often increases with age) and Type 2 (where insulin, if it is required at all, is often required less).

Folks in the Type 1 boat are in a much rougher place without insurance than the far larger, and growing, population of Type 2s. And I imagine, skew any reporting that does not make the discrimination between the two.

(This all intended as a supplement to your very good point)

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#68
post #59
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article directly explains this. # 1 competition works > When a company develops a new drug, it gets a period of exclusivity, 10 years or more, in which it is the only one able to make or sell that drug. But after that exclusivity period has passed, other companies can make a carbon copy and sell it at a lower price. Studies find that once several generic competitors come on the market, prices drop significantly.…

I've heard the part of the tweaks multiple times, and no one has ever explained why competitors can't just make the perfectly fine untweaked version.

Insulin is typically delivered by a pump device that monitors patients blood sugar levels and doses accordingly. The pump is a medical device too that is manufactured by the drugco. It only accepts insulin vials from drugco.

It's like the inkjet printers that refuse to use ink from other vendors.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#69
> Though insulin generally costs less than $10 per dose to produce, some versions of the drug have a list price above $200. This is in part because, in the US, a warped market has allowed three companies to dominate the insulin business.

> With California leading the way, a handful of states are considering trying to disrupt the market for essential medications, starting with insulin. The plan would be to manufacture and sell insulin themselves for a price that is roughly equivalent to the cost of production.

I feel like I'm missing something here. My understanding of why insulin is so expensive: laws are created and enforced by the government preventing people from competing in the space.

If you try to make your own insulin, and you take it to market with 3rd party analysis and certification of it being medical grade (and safe) insulin, you'll start seeing an escalation of the state against you. First angry letters from lawyers and eventually, if you continue head strong and ignore everyone telling you to stop, government officials (possibly with guns) will come and forcibly shut you down.

Is California just going to ignore these laws? How will the state not be liable for damages when individuals are?

I'm all in favor of revoking the legal structures that pick the winners in this market. It seems like there are plenty of people passionate in this space that would/could make insulin at near-cost if permitted to.

It's just that, by my understanding, it's the government that doesn't permit them to. It's weird that people in the government (at the state level) are stepping in to do what people in the government (at the federal, but possibly also the state level?) won't let people in the market do.

Edit: substituting “intellectual property laws” with “laws” as it seems there’s more to it than just IP.

Re: Insulin is way too expensive. California has a solution: Make its own

#70

This is great news. Honestly, I hope to see more nationalization of widely used services (or whatever the equivalent word for nationalization is at state or municipal levels.) Municipal broadband, power, roads, schools, post, housing, and healthcare? It's long overdue, and with an appropriate amount of funding has been shown to be effective at controlling costs and delivering moderately good quality in most cases. A…

Honestly though some industry's products/services verifiably don't improve end user/customer experiences from maximizing profits. It's hard not to see it at this point
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