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Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

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Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#61

It’s possible that many users classify them as junk and so the Bayesian filters learn from that. Plus they might actually be junk. The filters are usually content based.

Yep, my first reaction was, "seems to work as designed". The fix isn't to whitelist, the fix is to make their own emails more relevant (or easier to unsubscribe from).

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#62
post #33
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I can't wrap my head around the fact that VS Code and Teams came out of the same company. That the same people who thought "it's a good idea to use CS theory to add a type system to Javascript" are the same people who thought "it's a good idea to put ads in the start menu".

VS Code's selling point is that it's a middle-ground between (relatively) lightweight performance of a text editor, and power of an IDE. People are keeping an eye on performance, and they'll stop using it if it just becomes a bloated, master-of-none IDE. Teams' bread and butter is being "good enough" for enterprise. And they're also locked into a lot of bad early decisions they made since they don't want to break com…

What do people not like about Teams? I just started using it with a contract customer and it seems fine. Does what it says on the proverbial tin.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#63
In other news, water is wet.

Junk email classification seems to be hard for everyone. I've seen Apple and Google do similar things with their respective email clients and messages from their own companies.

At a previous job, we might have lost a significant contract if I hadn't been checking my Gmail junk folder. A former client was trying to contact me from a new company about potential work, and Gmail must have thought the start-up's domain was risky.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#64
post #16

I saw a bunch of mails just now in my junk folder from Microsoft support engineers, from threads I was CC'd on. That was it though.

Thats really bad honestly, imagine if you missed something important from Azure because its in a spam filter.

You must not be signed up for those emails (at least not for an environment of any real scale), because the most common reason people miss those mails is not because they ended up in the wrong folder, it's because there's too many of them to be able to read them all.

It's an incredibly common problem. Super important email, like an outage is brewing, or they are EOL'ing something which is going to blow you up (like older TLS versions), and yeah, you got it, but you probably didn't read it.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#65

Microsoft's disjointed approach to email doesn't surprise me here. They're actively enabling more phishing and fraud by not respecting the DMARC standard or participating in sending aggregate reports. For all that people like to bag on Google recently, Google has worked harder than anybody on this.

Then again, Google benefits if email goes away entirely. Ditto Meta and, yes, Microsoft.

We are seeing the initial skirmishes in a knock-down, drag-out war that users are going to lose.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#66
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the Azure people are aware and annoyed. I appreciate that the security people are holding the line.

Or Microsoft are just terrible at classifying spam

One of the signals they use for classifying spam is people clicking "Report Message->Junk" in Outlook, so it's probably a constant battle with people who forget they signed up for something and call it junk.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#67

Mentioned before in another thread. Google workspace flagged an email from Google domains as spam. And it wasn't even a marketing email from them. It was a reminder that I had a .dev domain about to be renewed. I guess that's what happens when you're just too big. And I don't blame the Gmail team. Google has probably launched and killed a thousand products with a thousand domains so curating that whitelist is probabl…

I've run into this issue when creating G Suite accounts and sending the initial welcome email (with password reset link) to a user's personal Gmail account. Somehow delivering an email with content written by Google, from Google to Google, is an issue.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#68
post #9

The fact that Microsoft doesn't just whitelist their own domains speaks to their commitment to strict security measures and good engineering culture. Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.

Is this sarcasm?

I'm almost certain that it is not sarcasm.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#69
post #9

The fact that Microsoft doesn't just whitelist their own domains speaks to their commitment to strict security measures and good engineering culture. Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.

You'd think that they'd have a non-domain-based way to do it, like cryptographically signing their own damn emails with a key embedded in outlook or something.

I've seen perfectly nice SPF/DKIM/DMARC valid message being silently rejected because of a bad reputation TLD or bad ip neighborhood.

Re: Tell HN: Microsoft classifies own emails as junk

#70
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Code's selling point is that it's a middle-ground between (relatively) lightweight performance of a text editor, and power of an IDE. People are keeping an eye on performance, and they'll stop using it if it just becomes a bloated, master-of-none IDE. Teams' bread and butter is being "good enough" for enterprise. And they're also locked into a lot of bad early decisions they made since they don't want to break com…

What do people not like about Teams? I just started using it with a contract customer and it seems fine. Does what it says on the proverbial tin.

I have to use Google Hangouts or Meet or whatever it’s called now, Zoom, Teams and Slack Huddles. Teams consistently screws up audio, video or both! Then we end up back in Slack.
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