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EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

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Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#61

Post by api »

pmontra wrote: post #24
closewith wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it's not just this surveillance law that depresses me, reading up on the cyber resilience act just feels to me like it will suck even more fun out of software development, at least in a professional context. God forbid people who love to use the title engineer will have to apply the rigour and standards of actual engineering to the work they do.

Or get a degree in engineering.

If software dev had been licensed and regulated this way we’d have only a tiny fraction of what we have now in terms of languages, OSes, tooling, etc.

There are specific areas where it makes sense but doing it broadly will just halt all innovation.

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#62

Post by dang »

Related:

Chat Control: The EU’s CSEM scanner proposal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34183772 - Dec 2022 (3 comments)

EU chat control bill: fundamental rights terrorism - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31416599 - May 2022 (5 comments)

Chat control: EU Commission presents mass surveillance plan on May 11 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31329368 - May 2022 (323 comments)

The latest EU plan to outlaw encryption and introduce communication surveillance - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29308617 - Nov 2021 (251 comments)

EU interior ministers welcome mandatory chat control for all smartphones - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29200506 - Nov 2021 (59 comments)

EU Chatcontrol 2.0 [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29066894 - Nov 2021 (197 comments)

Messaging and chat control - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28115343 - Aug 2021 (317 comments)

EU Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communications - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27759814 - July 2021 (11 comments)

European Parliament approves mass surveillance of private communication - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27753727 - July 2021 (415 comments)

Indiscriminate messaging and chatcontrol: Last chance to protest - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27736435 - July 2021 (104 comments)

IT companies warn in open letter: EU wants to ban encryption - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26825653 - April 2021 (217 comments)

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#63

Post by maxehmookau »

simongray wrote: post #56
maxehmookau wrote: post #8

I'm curious to know how likely this is to pass. EU laws are proposed by the council, but passed by the (much more representative and democratic) parliament. The EU has fairly good form in terms of passing common-sense tech laws (see; GDPR) so I'd be skeptical that this is any more than a dumb proposal destined for failure.

Laws are proposed by the Commission, not the Council. The Council and Parliament work like different chambers in the EU system, kinda like the Senate and the House in the US, but it's the prerogative of the Commission to propose new laws. Elections work similarly in any European parliamentary system. Prime ministers are also indirectly elected in those systems. The main difference is that the executive (the Commissio…

You're right, my bad. Either way, laws proposed by a small subset of indirectly appointed politicians.

They're approved by a much larger body of directly elected MEPs. That hasn't happened, yet. I'm interested to know how likely that really is.

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#65

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #50
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as? I can't think of any examples apart from possibly child-proof caps on medication, but that is serving a slightly different purpose - safety rather than authoritarianism.

Heroin, cocaine, opium, marijuana, methamphetamine, MDMA, LSD... Interestingly, the legal structure around these substances apparently avoids banning consumption, limiting itself to banning the obtaining or possession of the substance. But it's worth noting that consumption itself is also prohibited, just without a firm textual basis. For example, if you give birth in a hospital, you will be tested for the presence o…

I was more meaning a technological intervention that prevented underage people from being able to use/consume something.

Controlled substances are controlled through a legal framework although admittedly, some of the precursors to drugs are also banned which could count as a technological block on making them.

I have never heard of a confiscated child due to the parent having cannabis in their bloodstream - have you any source?

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#66

Post by Y-bar »

mjw_byrne wrote: post #48

EU tech law seems to be a bit of a rollercoaster. GDPR was conceptually a great thing (although its actual implementation smacks strongly of boomers with filofaxes ranting about FaceTok and Google Siri), the right to repair is good, the USB-C thing is useful. The cookie permission thing didn't work though. It's sad to see the EU now joining the "let's use child abuse as an excuse to steal the internet" bandwagon. The…

Why do you think GDPR is some boomer with filofaxes thing?

I'm young enough to be born at about the introduction of the original Mac and have worked with ecom for a long time now and GDPR from my perspective is an excellent law with the exception of some lacklustre enforcement.

Our clients all cleaned out their already collected data, they implemented deletion, and extraction/change-on-request by customers, they limited their tracking and data collection among many other things.

Not only was it an immediate privacy win for their customers, it made further development easaier because we did not have to deal with as much data, and it also protects the clients in the event of a data breach since there is less customer data to lose.

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#67

Post by systemvoltage »

worldofmatthew wrote: post #45
sendfoods wrote: post #9

I am the first person to appreciate the pro-online-privacy legislation from the EU in the last couple of years. Yet...How can the same organization be behind this? Is it a result of the sheer size of the org, with malevolent people reeking their ugly heads? A more cynical "privacy legislation as a smoke screen with totalitarian measures in the backend"?

Yes. Though I would also add a lot of it was about growing protectionism, in response to the EU not investing enough in the internet and acting surprised when USA's investments puts its companies on top.

Are there any Europeans here that don't agree with where the EU/WEF/etc agenda are going? Sitting here in US, it appears to be homogeneously moving in ever increasing regulations and hamstringing progress, but I am sure there is a great deal of debate about it? Are there groups in EU that are pushing back?

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#69

Post by pelasaco »

On "[*] To define a software application store the law makes a reference to the EU Digital Markets Act, Article 2, point 12 which defines “virtual assistant”. What they actually mean is point 14, which does define “software application store”."

Is any package manager defined as "software application store" ?

reference: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

Re: EU chat control law will ban open source operating systems

#70

Post by moffkalast »

dsign wrote: post #58

The contents of the proposed law can be accessed here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... All of it is as bad as it sounds, but you can search for Article 7 to go directly to the surveillance bit.

> REGULATION OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL

> laying down rules to prevent and combat child sexual abuse

Ah yes the tried and true "will somebody think of the children!" excuse to pass some tangential fascist laws without actually doing anything to help children in any way.

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