Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

berkeleygraphics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 94 posts

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#61

Post by layer8 »

signa11 wrote: post #53
layer8 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m waiting for a 27" 4K monitor with better-than-IPS contrast (i.e. VA or OLED) to use at 200% DPI, to replace a 1920x1200. With WQHD (2560x1440) I have the problem that 1-pixel stems are too thin for my eyes, 2-pixel stems are too big (font gets too large relative to screen size), and everything in between is blurry.

if you have not considered it before, check eizo ( https://www.eizo.com/home/ ) out. they make truly excellent displays.

None with the parameters I mentioned. To my knowledge currently only one JOLED panel (as used in the LG 27EP950) matches those specs, but it has poor availability, as they have yield issues (there are rumors JOLED may close shop), and it’s rather expensive. On the VA side, Samsung recently announced the M80C, which could fit the bill. LG announced the 27UQ850 with “IPS Black” technology, which I may take a look at, but the nominal contrast of 2000:1 is still less than VA, and in the past I couldn’t get used to IPS glow.

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#62

Post by hinkley »

jhanschoo wrote: post #55
cosmotic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ligatures make code harder to read and harder to edit. It's not just personal preference, it's the science of usability. When I press backspace or cursor keys, I expect one glyph to be erased, not who-knows-how-many (half?!). Authors of content and programs with ligatures-by-default subject their readers and users to the penalty of ligatures. Some people like pain, but that doesn't mean we need pain switches on every…

> When I press backspace or cursor keys, I expect one glyph to be erased, not who-knows-how-many. That's you, and not very generalizable. Many people edit on sites with ligatures and many people edit non-Latin text where isolated, non-ligatured text is wrong (Arabic, some Indic scripts, Han characters, Japanese katakana). Me personally, with respect to code, I pretty much think in terms of tokens: to remove the `==`,…

Also ligatures in a monospaced font are going to tell you they’re multiple characters because they’re either fat af or misaligned. You know it’s coming.

To be honest though I think I like those big fat commas the best. As someone pointed out, using dot and comma as semantically important in software is a mistake because they only differ by one pixel.

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#63

Post by cosmotic »

hinkley wrote: post #62
jhanschoo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I press backspace or cursor keys, I expect one glyph to be erased, not who-knows-how-many. That's you, and not very generalizable. Many people edit on sites with ligatures and many people edit non-Latin text where isolated, non-ligatured text is wrong (Arabic, some Indic scripts, Han characters, Japanese katakana). Me personally, with respect to code, I pretty much think in terms of tokens: to remove the `==`,…

Also ligatures in a monospaced font are going to tell you they’re multiple characters because they’re either fat af or misaligned. You know it’s coming. To be honest though I think I like those big fat commas the best. As someone pointed out, using dot and comma as semantically important in software is a mistake because they only differ by one pixel.

Vertical columns of background have, until ligatures, been a bullet proof means for brains to delineate characters. Is it possible to figure out with an increased cognitive load? Yes. Is it exactly as easy as without? No.

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#64

Post by cosmotic »

amake wrote: post #56
cosmotic wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ligatures make code harder to read and harder to edit. It's not just personal preference, it's the science of usability. When I press backspace or cursor keys, I expect one glyph to be erased, not who-knows-how-many (half?!). Authors of content and programs with ligatures-by-default subject their readers and users to the penalty of ligatures. Some people like pain, but that doesn't mean we need pain switches on every…

> It's not just personal preference, it's the science of usability It's obviously personal preference, because many people prefer it. If I found ligatures harder to read or edit then I wouldn't use them, but I don't, so I do. > programs with ligatures-by-default Such as?

Preferring it is personal preference. It being good or better is science. People prefer dark theme even though it's objectively harder to read because of the reduced contrast ratio, among other reasons.

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#65

Post by detaro »

cosmotic wrote: post #52
amake wrote: post #26

To all the people complaining about how they don't like ligatures: Nobody cares. If you don't like them, then don't use them. They are optional. Lots of people like them. Let people like things.

Ligatures make code harder to read and harder to edit. It's not just personal preference, it's the science of usability. When I press backspace or cursor keys, I expect one glyph to be erased, not who-knows-how-many (half?!). Authors of content and programs with ligatures-by-default subject their readers and users to the penalty of ligatures. Some people like pain, but that doesn't mean we need pain switches on every…

If it's established science that they are worse, could you share some citations backing that?

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#67

Post by tadfisher »

cosmotic wrote: post #63
hinkley wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ligatures in a monospaced font are going to tell you they’re multiple characters because they’re either fat af or misaligned. You know it’s coming. To be honest though I think I like those big fat commas the best. As someone pointed out, using dot and comma as semantically important in software is a mistake because they only differ by one pixel.

Vertical columns of background have, until ligatures, been a bullet proof means for brains to delineate characters. Is it possible to figure out with an increased cognitive load? Yes. Is it exactly as easy as without? No.

I'm confused, because I can delineate the characters in your comment fine, and this is with my browser's default sans-serif proportional typeface. I tend to read English text left-to-right, though, so if others are more comfortable reading top-to-bottom (or bottom-to-top, or middle-out), then my apologies.

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#68

Post by amake »

cosmotic wrote: post #64
amake wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not just personal preference, it's the science of usability It's obviously personal preference, because many people prefer it. If I found ligatures harder to read or edit then I wouldn't use them, but I don't, so I do. > programs with ligatures-by-default Such as?

Preferring it is personal preference. It being good or better is science. People prefer dark theme even though it's objectively harder to read because of the reduced contrast ratio, among other reasons.

Are you haranguing people about liking dark mode in comments sections as well, or just ligatures?

> It being good or better is science

Citation needed.

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#69

Post by seanhunter »

I love Berkeley Mono and have been using it as my main font for some time. I’m in two minds about using the ligatures version because I’m not completely crazy about ligatures in general, but this font is just a fantastic monospace font for general use. I can heartily recommend it.

Re: Berkeley Mono Ligatures Release

#70

Post by seanhunter »

cosmotic wrote: post #64
amake wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not just personal preference, it's the science of usability It's obviously personal preference, because many people prefer it. If I found ligatures harder to read or edit then I wouldn't use them, but I don't, so I do. > programs with ligatures-by-default Such as?

Preferring it is personal preference. It being good or better is science. People prefer dark theme even though it's objectively harder to read because of the reduced contrast ratio, among other reasons.

Highly convenient that your preference is “science” whereas other people’s preference is just a preference. I’m not a ligatures fan myself but it seems completely arbitrary and don’t see at all how it’s scientific. You could convince me otherwise by posting some references to this science.
Post reply on HN