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The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

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Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#61

Post by LatteLazy »

avelis wrote: post #46

For general US construction, there are single-source cost-plus service contracts. Which incentivizes construction to do only the necessary and charge the max possible for it. In contrast, a concrete milestone service contract with re-bid sections of the contract that miss their milestones can create a competitive construction landscape. Things I am omitting. Red tape slowing down construction. Changing the incentive…

I thought Cost Plus incentivise people to do unnecessary work? Since getting x% of "plus" on top of a huge messily, error filled contract is more than a lean efficient one?

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#62

Post by nxm »

alexfromapex wrote: post #52
pirate787 wrote: post #39

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

Also the real wages have not increased much but all the expenses have, it's just demoralizing

But people still want and yell for “affordable housing”. Can’t have your cake and eat it too

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#63

Post by nobodyandproud »

croes wrote: post #18

Maybe there is a correlation "Worker injuries and illnesses are down—from 10.9 incidents per 100 workers in 1972 to 2.7 per 100 in 2020." https://www.osha.gov/data/commonstats

Are undocumented workers also tallied?

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#64

Post by stcredzero »

pirate787 wrote: post #39

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

There is a lot of historical evidence, that deep knowledge and long tail expertise in specific industries is carried in groups of people with a close knit subculture.

Such knowledge can also be transmitted from one subculture to another, with varying degrees of success. In order to bring in new people, one must either bring in a few beginners into a majority competent population, or have one subculture highly motivated to absorb and replicate the success of another.

This is well covered in Migrations And Cultures: A World View by Thomas Sowell.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#65

Post by troupe »

feoren wrote: post #34
Kukumber wrote: post #23

The pay and the working conditions are miserable, plus the society doesn't value hard work anymore

"Society doesn't ___ anymore" statements are nearly universally bullshit.

Society doesn't make true statements about society anymore.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#66

Post by toomuchtodo »

recuter wrote: post #48
belval wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure this is the right answer and calling this "worker productivity" seems a bit harsh. A "Pretty Good House" (book that was on the front page last week) includes insulation above and below the foundation slab, vapour barriers, double studs to break thermal bridges, complex window installation (again thermal bridges), air exchangers and heat pumps with ducts (or mini-splits). New constructions (for cold zone),…

Book may have been on the front page last week but I assure you very very few people in the US have insulation above and below their foundations or incredibly air tight houses.

Gotta start somewhere. Older houses were built when energy was cheap and plentiful, and we're transitioning to a future where that isn't as clear.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#67

Post by nemo44x »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #40
markus_zhang wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However many modern homes use inferior material for the job comparing to the older homes in the same area. Probably to cut cost. I'm not sure if it was also the case for older homes built in the 50s/60s though.

Can you give an example of inferior material?

I can:

- Vinyl windows compared to old growth wood windows from 100 years ago.

- Vinyl siding compared to cedar shakes.

- Extremely poor wood quality in the lower end 2x4 and 2x6 lumber.

- Sheathing that's essentially cardboard in really cheap builds.

- Flooring is sad today in cheap to moderate homes.

Thing is there were really badly built homes 100 years ago and they just aren't standing any longer. We do get a but of selection bias when we compare old homes. The ones that are still standing were probably built well and of quality materials and have been taken care of.

You can build an awesome home today out of excellent materials like engineered wood, high quality OSB/ply/ZipSystem, and of course whatever you want to spend on flooring, siding, windows, etc.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#68

Post by dsfyu404ed »

markus_zhang wrote: post #17
anonreeeeplor wrote: post #12

Corruption was a massive problem in USA industry as well as slowdowns due to legal red tape. My guess is incompetent government is at the root of the problem. The more you scale red tape, the harder it is to do anything. Look at the California high speed rail. Corrupt governments make far more money by slowing down a project and using it as a washing machine to extract rents. Getting large public projects to misspend…

Red tape in many cases is simply an excuse for more corruption or stronger interest groups IMHO. It puts a legal stamp on a lot of things so that ordinary people cannot argue that. That also makes me think that SWE should either break all those red tapes or put up their own. Nowadays they are simply being milked by everyone else who is behind a red tape or a stamp or a certification or something similar.

>It puts a legal stamp on a lot of things so that ordinary people cannot argue that.

Ordinary people can argue it. They'll just get argued back at and mired by the other 50% of people who will knee jerk defend the government and the government and the interest groups will laugh all the way to the bank.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#69

Post by dzmien »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #19
hindsightbias wrote: post #2

> number of houses or total square footage built per employee Average house size has probably doubled in the last 50 years. Nail guns can't make up for building code and higher finish work demands. It's not uncommon to see 6 or 7 layers in sheathing today.

Isn’t the real headline then that building construction technology hasn’t improved at the same rate as other manufacturing tech? For example, cars today are orders of magnitude more complicated than 50 years ago, but due to more efficient manufacturing technology, the auto industry has far higher productivity per employee than it did 50 years ago.

I would imagine that automation plays a role. And maybe car manufacturers can exercise more control over assembly lines, and don't have to worry about unforeseen environmental factors. Of course, that is just a guess, I don't know enough about construction or car manufacturing to really say.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#70

Post by rsynnott »

hindsightbias wrote: post #2

> number of houses or total square footage built per employee Average house size has probably doubled in the last 50 years. Nail guns can't make up for building code and higher finish work demands. It's not uncommon to see 6 or 7 layers in sheathing today.

Higher proportion of apartment blocks (almost always higher cost per sqft, with the tradeoff being lower land use) also seems likely to be an issue.
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