If this topic is interesting, Andrew Huberman (paper coauthor) has a YT channel https://www.youtube.com/@hubermanlab
Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
61–70 of 174 posts
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#62I remember in my youth, in the 80s, there was a very popular fad called Autogenic training. Looks similar.
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#63Boringgggg, as usual.
Read "Altered Traits" - two western scientists trying to pump up meditation self-report that they can't find any tangible benefits and resort to BP control meditation because they can't even reduce their BP, let alone anything else. "Anxiety and mood" are pretty subjective. Just sitting there drops pulse too.
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#64It’s good to see this ‘validated’, but anyone who has actually tried these types of practices knows how effective they can be, there’s absolutely no doubt about any of this stuff. And why should there be? the Indians figure this stuff out like 1000 years ago or more and have been writing it down and telling people about it and what? cause we’re Western science we’re just not gonna fucking believe that? It’s ridiculou…
Welcome to science, where we actually reproduce results and don't just yell "everybody knows". (Since you are fond of the Indian approach, though, may I suggest you inspect your anger?) And yes, it's fairly basic stuff - but it's also laying the foundation for ongoing studies. And it's not like it's ignoring ancient practices, they're specifically referenced. While we're on "how does this study help in any way", it's…
He didn’t get my point. Maybe he was replying to another comment and mistakenly put it down here?
It’s something about something that’s too obvious. I got a science degree man, I believe in the scientific method, but the way it’s applied sometimes: too stupid. The scientific institution is so fucking flawed. The scientific method can’t cure humanity’s faults: reproducibility crisis, confirmation bias, wrong incentives in publishing, produce papers that mostly seek to advance careers rather than advance human knowledge.
You can’t handle that? That’s on you. I just think you should realize when a paper is published about something that’s too fucking obvious. You don’t need science to validate that meditation and pranayama and breath work exercises work.
Another way you could say it is it’s patronizing colonial validation of “savages superstitions.” You don’t need unnecessary validation, and to the extent you endorse that you undermine the pre-existing legitimacy: suggesting that without science’s spurious stamp of approval these things don’t pass muster. Which is totally toxic bs.
Also, the thing is if science is not gonna make itself capable of exploring the more subtle energies, if it’s going to actively penalize explorations of that nature, then certainly science should not be all that we rely upon. We shouldn’t penalize people who are not coming from the scientific tradition. We should trust her own experience. Our own instincts and intuition. We should listen to our hearts, and we should listen to these Indians telling us about this stuff that works for thousands of years and we should listen to ourselves because we know it works.
If you don’t think you can know something until some scientist in a journal tells you it’s true even if it’s based on your own experience, I got no words for you man. You’re lost and science isn’t gonna help you get found. Fix your head first. You can’t do science coming from the wrong place for it. And that’s the fucking point.
Also
(Since you are fond of the Indian approach, though, may I suggest you inspect your anger?)
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
http://files.howtolivewiki.com/.meditation_2015/transcripts/... This came out of an attempt to strip the core meditation techniques down to completely remove the mysticism, and adjust the practice cycle for long-term solo practitioners who are agnostic or atheist and can't lean on concepts like "The Buddha" or "Lord Shiva" (although I myself am Hindu.) The critical innovation is doing ten minute rounds of different p…
I've read at least three books on meditation and worked with a variety of apps, recordings, etc, and as these are all created for a western audience I've never seen anything mystical or religious in any of them. Anything by Jon Kabat-Zinn should be pretty free of religiosity for example , as his goal was to promote mindfulness within a medical setting.
Yeah, the distinction may be that this is an “enlightenment driven” program —- an hour a day for ten years, coupled to therapy. Most of the enlightenment driven work out there is relatively religious and spends a lot of time on faith in lineage etc. This was an experiment to skip all that and just work the core practices very very hard and results are pretty good over seven or eight years.
I should have clarified that in the earlier post. I should also note that I’m not a dharma teacher by trade: I do that as a hobby, mostly I run a tech company. I teach out of respect for my own teacher but am not making “a thing” of it.
Which I think keeps me honest: zero money changes hands etc.
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#66It’s good to see this ‘validated’, but anyone who has actually tried these types of practices knows how effective they can be, there’s absolutely no doubt about any of this stuff. And why should there be? the Indians figure this stuff out like 1000 years ago or more and have been writing it down and telling people about it and what? cause we’re Western science we’re just not gonna fucking believe that? It’s ridiculou…
I've actually tried these types of practices, and they make me feel like I've used a recreational inhalant. Without the paper I'd have assumed giving yourself mild hypoxia just gave you euphoria and dizziness, and other positive effects were confirmation bias.
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've read at least three books on meditation and worked with a variety of apps, recordings, etc, and as these are all created for a western audience I've never seen anything mystical or religious in any of them. Anything by Jon Kabat-Zinn should be pretty free of religiosity for example , as his goal was to promote mindfulness within a medical setting.
Yeah, the distinction may be that this is an “enlightenment driven” program —- an hour a day for ten years, coupled to therapy. Most of the enlightenment driven work out there is relatively religious and spends a lot of time on faith in lineage etc. This was an experiment to skip all that and just work the core practices very very hard and results are pretty good over seven or eight years. I should have clarified tha…
For what it's worth, the "faith in lineage" stuff doesn't require magical thinking and is pretty helpful. The downside of it from my perspective is it's just a lot of stuff to learn and a bit complicated to maintain in a Western cultural context. Plenty of people are making progress with more stripped-down approaches that rhyme better with the scientific worldview.
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#68It’s good to see this ‘validated’, but anyone who has actually tried these types of practices knows how effective they can be, there’s absolutely no doubt about any of this stuff. And why should there be? the Indians figure this stuff out like 1000 years ago or more and have been writing it down and telling people about it and what? cause we’re Western science we’re just not gonna fucking believe that? It’s ridiculou…
I've actually tried these types of practices, and they make me feel like I've used a recreational inhalant. Without the paper I'd have assumed giving yourself mild hypoxia just gave you euphoria and dizziness, and other positive effects were confirmation bias.
Interesting! I guess you need a good teacher, or you could just be "different to the bell curve". I mean theoretically every little thing is going to have potentially different effects for everybody. But I want to ask...so even doing something like box breathing (4 counts inhale - 4 hold full - 4 exhale - 4 hold empty - ... repeat), give you feeling of mild hypoxia / euphoria / dizziness / like an inhalant?
Also, this will probably sound judgy so I'm sorry but I'm really curious: do you normally have trouble walking up stairs, get out of breath easily, or feel faint when changing body positions?
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#69This is an extremely weak study that basically launders Huberman's "mini interventionism" and abuses west coast's fascination with what is mostly "breath-themed magic". The idea of hyperregulation of breath is a cousin of hyperregulation of dietary intake, which is a western "top-down"ism, latter of which induced more disordered eating than it achieved/preserved health. Regarding the criticisms of this study; Firstly…
> an extremely weak study
Then it is surprising that a reasonably robust journal like Cell Reports Medicine published it (presumably after peer review), and so many Stanford postdocs and associate professors put their name on it
Re: Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces physiological arousal
#70This is an extremely weak study that basically launders Huberman's "mini interventionism" and abuses west coast's fascination with what is mostly "breath-themed magic". The idea of hyperregulation of breath is a cousin of hyperregulation of dietary intake, which is a western "top-down"ism, latter of which induced more disordered eating than it achieved/preserved health. Regarding the criticisms of this study; Firstly…
> an extremely weak study Then it is surprising that a reasonably robust journal like Cell Reports Medicine published it (presumably after peer review), and so many Stanford postdocs and associate professors put their name on it
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