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There was no tailgating.
New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
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Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#62[flagged]
If it wasn't a Tesla the driver would probably be sitting in jail right now for intentionally causing a wreck. But because Tesla's pretend attempt at self-driving engaged in the reckless driving, the driver is protected despite clearly not reacting in anything even slightly resembling a timely manner. Disclaimer: I work in the AV space... but no one in the space should consider Tesla a competitor.
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Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#63Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe the car was in "Full Self Driving" and not "Autopilot"?
It’s unclear because FSD is supposed to switch to autopilot on highways. The driver said it was in FSD mode but they may just not realize that switchover occurs.
In any case, navigate on autopilot can change lanes on the highway without user intervention so it seems like an insignificant detail.
Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#65I think what's interesting here is it's likely the first instance where Tesla FSD has been involved in an accident which affected other drivers. [Edit] From the video the Tesla is making a lane change and stopping simultaneously which means there could be a case of the Tesla FSD/driver doing a unsafe lane change.[1]
Most of the time FSD just wrecks the Tesla itself or injures the driver of the Tesla (i.e. running into trees/dividers, running into much heavier freight trucks).
It will be interesting if Tesla comes in to provide monetary support for proving the legal case that Tesla FSD is not at fault or the Tesla driver (and his insurance) will be left to fend for themselves.
In the short term I could see Tesla not supporting the driver and absolving themselves via fine line/TOS, etc.
But the long term effects of not legally supporting any driver with Tesla FSD accidents will be that new customers won't trust this $10000 upsell product offering that's highly profitable for Tesla.
I could also see 3rd party (non-Tesla) insurance companies refusing to sell coverage to Tesla FSD drivers.
It could also make Tesla 1st party insurance also untrustworthy to customers and could become a huge liability for Tesla.
It seems like it will be a great litmus test to see if Tesla has the guts to step up for its own product.
[1] First video shows a potential unsafe lane change https://theintercept.com/2023/01/10/tesla-crash-footage-auto...
Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#66I have a VW Golf and it has what it calls "adaptive cruise control". What makes it different from my older (simple) cruise control is that it will slow down and speed up again as necessary without my intervention. For example, if I set the speed to 70 mph and it gets close to a car ahead that is only going 65 mph, it will slow down and maintain what the software believes is a safe distance. Similarly, if a car in an…
I rented a RAV4 recently for not one but two cross-US trips (Seattle VA). Its adaptive cruise control (like its lane assist) felt mostly familiar from previous rentals. It takes a lot of getting used to, if you’re from a time when cars just mechanically do what you tell them (failure modes aside).
That said, I have the almost opposite take! The adaptive CC wasn’t perfect, but it had a perfect failure mode all but one time: it just stopped working at all when its sensors got fudged in any way.
The one exception was a near pileup when drivers ahead of me came to a sudden stop in the middle of an urban ramp soup that’s always high risk. Even then it did the right thing: it screamed (beeped) at me to brake, because I needed to control that and it had no safe way of doing it for me.
I’m similarly more vigilant with assisted CC, but I’m more inclined to use it because it makes me more vigilant. I almost never used a plain CC without it because it’s too easy to get lazy at the wheel and make mistakes. Constantly checking on the known-limited computer kept me alert but let me rest my legs for ~10k miles over a month and a half.
And it saved my ass on a sudden ice patch in Nevada, which was the other time it didn’t work exactly as expected. I don’t drive with a computer in control, I only delegate to it for menial tasks like predictable speed adjustment. But I’m grateful I had the computer to help me regain traction coming around an icy bend when the alternative was me and my pup and everything we had in tow were going to roll off a mountainside.
Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#67Tesla: we have an experimental self driving system that we need to test. Person: lol how are you gonna pay people enough to test something that might endanger them? Tesla: no they will pay us for the privilege
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Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s very useful on long drives since you don’t have to constantly adjust your speed by little bits (manually or adjusting the cruise control setting). Takes a moment to moment mental load off so you can focus on the other cars around you better. If the cars ahead of me are slowing down significantly I disengage and go manual until I have a better idea what’s going on. My car can supposedly stop completely that way.…
I wonder why this is preferable to just taking the train for longer trips? Wouldn't it be nicer to sit back and let someone else do all the driving for however many hundred of you are all going to the same place anyway? Once you get past the long part of the trip you could always rent a car if it's rural or whatever.
ACC is nice on freeways around town if traffic isn’t heavy (I like more control when it is). Long distances is where it really shines.
Really the train isn’t viable in most of the US. And then you have no car at the end, probably in a city with bad public transit unless you want to take taxis/Ubers or have friends/family drive you around.
So for long hauls, it tends to be a car or a plane. And that decision is heavily influenced by distance.
Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#69This looks like the vehicle tried and failed to get the driver to engage and pulled over best it could. There is no shoulder there so… Let’s wait to get more info as to what the driver was doing and if they were incapacitated. The FSD beta is pretty aggressive on making sure the driver is paying attention via both steering sensors, the in-cabin camera and the touch screen.
> pulled over best it could If that is its best then FSD has no business being on the road. It was erratic and didn't give clear intent to other cars what it was trying to do.
IMO the car signaled, changed lane and stopped without slamming the brakes. It didn't collide with anything, the pileup was formed by human drivers driving too close and too fast for their reaction time. If it had been a human driver that saw a kitten or a rock in the road, it would probably slam the brakes.
I'm not defending Tesla's FSD, which I think is inferior for Tesla's reluctance to use LIDAR in addition to cameras. Current car AIs are imperfect, they need as much info as they can if we expect them to drive safer than humans.
Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s very useful on long drives since you don’t have to constantly adjust your speed by little bits (manually or adjusting the cruise control setting). Takes a moment to moment mental load off so you can focus on the other cars around you better. If the cars ahead of me are slowing down significantly I disengage and go manual until I have a better idea what’s going on. My car can supposedly stop completely that way.…
I wonder why this is preferable to just taking the train for longer trips? Wouldn't it be nicer to sit back and let someone else do all the driving for however many hundred of you are all going to the same place anyway? Once you get past the long part of the trip you could always rent a car if it's rural or whatever.
The only train I could find that goes anywhere near my mother's house would take approximately 12 hours, with a 5 hour layover in a small town with ~nothing to do. I can drive it in maybe 1.5 hours. That's why.