We need a lot more electricians • Hacker News Board

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#61

Post by actionfromafar » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #20

londons_explore wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of laws and regulations about electrical installations. In many regions, doing it legally requires lots of courses and certificates. When you have invested all the time and money into getting said certificates, which is sometimes multiple years full time, you typically want to become a full time electrician to pay back the time+money investment. That means that 'I just do electrics on the side' is bec…

Obviously in most parts of the world, there is no electrical police who will raid your home and look for evidence of wiring done without the correct certifications. Therefore, lots of people DIY stuff illegally... If you choose this route, understand that: * The main cause of injury/death caused by electrics is fires. Fires are normally caused by improper fuses (a fuse/breaker should always be the lowest rating of an…

But not too tight, or the strands may break.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#62

Post by BitwiseFool » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

newZWhoDis wrote: post #37

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Required to sheath ground in green? What on earth for? That makes ground less effective since you want any incidental contact with ground to ground the object touching it.

The part of the wire that is connected to the grounding object has no sheathing, but the length of the cable is insulated. The old cable was the same way. The coating was black and looked identical to the other wires running through the wall. I assume the justification for the code is that it makes the ground wire visually distinct.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#63

Post by bombcar » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #20

londons_explore wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of laws and regulations about electrical installations. In many regions, doing it legally requires lots of courses and certificates. When you have invested all the time and money into getting said certificates, which is sometimes multiple years full time, you typically want to become a full time electrician to pay back the time+money investment. That means that 'I just do electrics on the side' is bec…

Obviously in most parts of the world, there is no electrical police who will raid your home and look for evidence of wiring done without the correct certifications. Therefore, lots of people DIY stuff illegally... If you choose this route, understand that: * The main cause of injury/death caused by electrics is fires. Fires are normally caused by improper fuses (a fuse/breaker should always be the lowest rating of an…

And many places in the US allow homeowners to do work that nobody else can do without certification - sometimes even skipping the permitting.

It is still worthwhile to understand what you're doing, and how the breakers/GFCI/Arc fault will save your ass - and why they are NOT the same thing!

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#64

Post by irq » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #46

mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

Yes we will need more electrical generation. I have zero interst in solar panels on my house. I don't live in an area where they would be particularly useful; moreover, I don't want to own them, or to be responsible for maintaining them; I don't want large batteries in my house, or to be responsible for maintaining those. I don't want transfer switches or the responsibility of maintaining those. I want to pay the ele…

The ability for power companies to deliver on this reliably is decreasing as our society grows increasingly low-trust. This is why you may want to take control of your own destiny and secure your own source of power.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#65

Post by Dma54rhs » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #43

pyb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most countries, I don't think you're required to update your home every time the electrical code gets a change. However, many electricians will try to sell you on this unnecessary work.

You are normally required to update anything an electrician touches or could impact. So if you are having a new socket added in your kitchen, then all the other sockets in the kitchen on the same circuit will need updating, and the breaker for the kitchen. But you probably won't have to have your living room rewired.

It seems US is way more overregulated when it comes to electricity or building in general.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#66

Post by floren » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

photonbeam wrote: post #26

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also impossible to outsource overseas.

Are there visas available for those in blue collar trades like this? I’m wondering if they’re also protected from immigration related market forces on wages

Electrical wiring practices differ from country to country. Anyone coming in on a visa would need some retraining if only to learn the local regulations.

You can sling Javascript the same way in Chennai or in Cleveland, but I wouldn't want a UK electrician wiring my house in California.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#67

Post by mediaman » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #21

yboris wrote: post #17

Unrelated, but sharing just in case: I don't have electricity training, but last month I replaced my electric panel (upgrading to 30 circuits, keeping 100 amps) and it was easy: turn off every breaker (hiding face behind metal panel as is good safety strategy), turn off main, disconnect the meter, touch all dangling hot wires to ground (just in case, unsure if there's weird residual charge from something). Except for…

Did you upgrade your wiring? Your old breakers were the size they were for a reason.

He said he wasn't upgrading amperage, so wire size requirements for existing breakers should not change.

It sounds like he was adding circuits which means he's running wires for those new circuits anyway.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#68

Post by brodouevencode » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #11

Something to keep in mind is that most homes, if they haven't been constructed within the last 10 years, likely have some non-compliance with the current electrical code. For instance, I needed to install an exterior disconnect which wound up costing me more than a thousand dollars on top of the existing electrical work I needed done. The electrician also needed to replace my existing ground wires because they are su…

Where do you live? In a lot of municipalities any out-of-code work can remain unless they are actively touching that part of the system. For instance, if you had ungrounded outlets in your house, but were just getting a drop for a ceiling fan you wouldn't have to install grounds as part of that work. So they must have been having to touch all those components anyway.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#69

Post by treeman79 » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #31

mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

There is mooooore than enough spare grid capacity to deliver the electricity to electrify homes. We size the grid for peak capacity, not for average capacity, which means that there's a very low overall usage amount. And the big drivers of additional electricity, heating and transportation, are easily shiftable to non-peak times. And as we have smarter devices, and more time of use billing, load shifting will be easy…

A recent cold snap left East coast with rolling black outs across a number of states.

This is not California where you put on a warm jacket.

You heat the home, find shelter somewhere or die.

I kept getting notes to hold off on using appliances for a few days. Can imagine that if our areas heat was electric that would have collapsed the grid.

Re: We need a lot more electricians

#70

Post by malfist » Wed, Jan 11, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

vehemenz wrote: post #39

mfer wrote: post #15

The article is touching on the important issue of homes but is missing three very important related issues. 1) The network that delivers power to the home. It's not able to handle everyone electrifying everything. If you electrify everything (electric stove, electric car, air conditioner/heater) you are going to be hard pressed in many locales to be covered by at home solar. 2) Electricity generation. We need a lot m…

I think the article does a disservice to its thesis by focusing on California. Half the country lives in places where subzero temperatures are an issue. Not to mention, the rest of the country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable, let alone the disposable wealth to upgrade their homes. Electric cars are still a long way from viability in most places, though it may not seem that way in California.

> country doesn't have the sunlight hours to make solar as viable

California somehow gets more sunlight than the rest of the US? If I recall for physics, the amount of light depends on the latitude, not what state you're in.