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Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

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Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#61

Post by subharmonicon »

adamrezich wrote: post #50
kelseyfrog wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that ID card holding rates correlate with race, income, and age[1][2][3] in a way that those advocating for ID requirements benefit from. When the consequences of such a system result in race, age, and income disparities, the purpose of such a system is, functionally, to disenfranchise on race, age, and income. The fact is that there are millions[4] more, black, brown, hispanic, young, and poor people…

why is it that, in discussions like these, nobody ever wants to try to solve any able-to-get-ID disparities that may or may not exist, instead choosing to always assume it's an inherent, intractable issue?

If you go look up past debates over the issue, you'll find that people have proposed solutions to that problem, only to have some politicians not be willing to pay for those solutions.

There have also been support for widening kinds of proof of identity allowed, and again there are politicians who are against that.

There had previously been debate over a free and easy-to-get national ID, but usually the pushback on that comes from people not wanting to feel tracked by the government.

I have to wonder if that would have more support today than in the past because of the amount of surveillance happening by private companies.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#62

Post by chrisco255 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #59
chrisco255 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a red herring, feel good but not very logical argument meant to shut down discussion. Doesn't matter that you need an id to work, to fly, to buy cigarettes, etc. No one is arguing that the TSA is racist for requiring id to fly.

> No one is arguing that the TSA is racist for requiring id to fly. That's because it's not based in reality. https://papersplease.org/wp/2017/04/13/yes-you-can-fly-witho... https://www.corporatetravelsafety.com/safety-tips/can-you-fl... In fact, the TSA itself claims you can fly without ID https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

> In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property.

You will not be allowed to enter the security checkpoint if your identity cannot be confirmed, you choose to not provide proper identification or you decline to cooperate with the identity verification process.

^ From your TSA link above. You might possibly be able to fly if they can validate your identity by other means, which basically involves cross-referencing your existing identity documentation in their database. Otherwise, you can't fly.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#63

Post by inferiorhuman »

scotty79 wrote: post #47
goodSteveramos wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we tied the creation of a national database to the abolishment of the private ones congress would abandon the national one immediately

Isn't it what happening right now? USA unlike any other first world (or even second world) country doesn't have national ID. When USA differs in any aspect from the rest of the civilized world there's usually money involved. Heaps of it.

  USA unlike any other first world (or even second world) country doesn't have national ID.
England, and I believe the whole of the UK, hasn't had a national ID card since 2011, two years after they were introduced in an opt-in basis. Mostly it's commonwealth countries that don't have ID cards (Australia, Bahamas, Canada, New Zealand). However, Japan's in the kinda but not really category.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#64

Post by scotty79 »

goodSteveramos wrote: post #48
scotty79 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it what happening right now? USA unlike any other first world (or even second world) country doesn't have national ID. When USA differs in any aspect from the rest of the civilized world there's usually money involved. Heaps of it.

Absolutely not. The National ID system is not replacing Experian and other privately owned and highly invasive databases on Americans.

But it couldn't diminish their profitablity and we can't have that.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#65

Post by yial »

whoosh3 wrote: post #19
hacym wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain OTC and prescription drugs definitely require an ID. Think coffee syrups and potent pain meds.

Pseudoephedrine, many ADHD medications and some muscle relaxants require ID.

That depends on stat, I suppose.

In my state, none of those require ID if a prescription.

Pseudoephedrine does if purchased without a prescription.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#66

Post by rolenthedeep »

esyir wrote: post #12
rolenthedeep wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I had just assumed it was a voter suppression measure

Or a form of identification, like most other countries have.

Sure, right up until it's implemented and immediately becomes the only form of acceptable ID for voter registration. Or, they require the new ID, AND your old state ID AND your birth certificate AND solid proof of address.

Then it becomes voter suppression, and it happens entirely too frequently here.

Does the US need a national ID system? Yes, definitely. But it needs to be implemented carefully to not fuck over the citizens, and our government doesn't understand how to not be a festering sack of dicks so it's not likely to happen soon.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#67

Post by goodSteveramos »

scotty79 wrote: post #64
goodSteveramos wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. The National ID system is not replacing Experian and other privately owned and highly invasive databases on Americans.

But it couldn't diminish their profitablity and we can't have that.

Corporate power is used for political purposes. Making money is just a nice to have. The intelligence value of the data these private international companies are allowed to collect on American citizens is unfathomable.

Re: Real ID was a real mistake and Congress should scrap it at last

#68

Post by yial »

tadfisher wrote: post #57
whoosh3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudoephedrine, many ADHD medications and some muscle relaxants require ID.

...in your state. This is not a federal requirement.

Yes, I believe you’re agreeing with me? As the person I’m replying to made it sound like it was a blanket need to show ID.
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