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Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

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Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#61

Post by arlort »

xyzelement wrote: post #22

This triggered two thoughts for me. First, how much of a killer the cold is. We've moved on from "global warming" to "climate change" language but there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise (such as Latvia where I am from). Today, cold kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, while "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." Second, preparedn…

The whole world being a couple degrees hotter is not guaranteed to be equally distributed. The reason why Latvia, and most of "Northern" Europe is livable instead of a frozen wasteland is due to climate mechanisms that we're not entirely sure how sensitive they are to climate change

It might get a bit warmer, it might get a lot hotter or it might even get a whole lot colder

Climate change is a better term because the change itself is unpredictable and likely damaging in the short term

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#62

Post by eternalban »

llamaimperative wrote: post #11
kwhitefoot wrote: post #7

The real story here seems to me to be not that people burned their clothes to stay warm but that people in a place with fragile connections to the outside world had so little in the way of supplies to weather a relatively short period without food deliveries. I'm not blaming them, I assume that many of the affected people don't have the resources to keep a buffer stock.

The real story of every tragedy that hits a reservation is that they all sit downstream of a horrific, orchestrated genocide campaign intended to destroy these people’s history, culture, and knowledge of self-sufficiency. Put ‘em on the shittiest plots of land you can find, steal their children, ban them from speaking their languages and from passing their knowledge between generations, then we can sit and gawk at th…

I honestly wonder if the native Americans were (destined to be) screwed even before Europeans set foot in Americas. They were behind a formidable technology curve and I truly wonder would they have fared better if Japanese or Russian (or possibly even Chinese) colonists (the closest geographic candidate colonists) showed up.

Consider it as a thought experiment - something that's been popping in my head lately:

under what sort of ideal conditions would have the native civilizations and peoples of Americas been left unmolested by anyone? An entire continent left in isolation while the more technologically advanced societies reached the way station of 'universal human rights'?

[typically don't mention downvotes but a difficult question does not merit it. If you so strongly disagree, discuss it.]

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#63

Post by slibhb »

kevingadd wrote: post #25
xyzelement wrote: post #22

This triggered two thoughts for me. First, how much of a killer the cold is. We've moved on from "global warming" to "climate change" language but there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise (such as Latvia where I am from). Today, cold kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, while "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." Second, preparedn…

> "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." There are multiple parts of the world approaching the point of "so hot post-climate-change that you can't survive without air conditioning" at this point, it's not a first world problem. See the map in https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-climate/3151/too-hot-to-ha... to get a sense of how it's an increasingly global problem. As a result eventually power lo…

This claim has been made, but it turned out not to be true (so far). I.e. everyone without AC did not die when the wet bulb temperature exceeded the apparent limit: https://www.almendron.com/tribuna/the-mysteriously-low-death...

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#64

Post by glogla »

giardini wrote: post #53
xyzelement wrote: post #22

This triggered two thoughts for me. First, how much of a killer the cold is. We've moved on from "global warming" to "climate change" language but there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise (such as Latvia where I am from). Today, cold kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, while "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." Second, preparedn…

Is the fireplace ready to use? Is it clear of obstructions (e.g., birds, bats and insect nests)? Have you cleared out any "creosote" (deposition from incomplete past combustion) which can make the chimney burn like a jet engine (very exciting)? Actually started a fire in the chimney and keeping it burning safely for several days can be enlightening (i hesitate to say "fun", except for the children). Try it with someo…

Moreover, the way fireplaces work is that the fire heats up some kind of heavy construction (cast iron, brick, etc) and that then radiates heat. Not every fireplace is built that way - some of them are decorative and will actually make you colder.

Quite a few people found out in not a nice way last time Texas has winter storm.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#65

Post by chasd00 »

kevingadd wrote: post #27
joemazerino wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A nice cop out. Are you saying those on the reserves are generationally crippled beyond reproach? Are all cultures stuck in wintery conditions facing the same issues and if not, why?

> Are all cultures stuck in wintery conditions facing the same issues and if not, why? The person you're replying to explained why: We did it to them on purpose to wipe them out.

> We did it to them on purpose to wipe them out.

"we"? I wouldn't be so presumptuous.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#66

Post by kzrdude »

smcl wrote: post #44
epistasis wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because they are both accurate descriptions, but "global warming" is talking about the average temp. Even as the average goes up, the standard deviation could change too, meaning that even with higher average temp, there can be bigger and colder winter storms, which are balanced out by even higher temps the rest of the time.

Wait, why "No"? We're saying the same thing in different way. you: > meaning that even with higher average temp, there can be bigger and colder winter storms me: > Temperature rising has a few more side-effects than just your winter being milder by 1-2C

Another thing we can spell out is that the rising average temperature is an average over the whole year, over the whole planet. I.e any particular location or country could have a sinking average temperature.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#67

Post by vitaflo »

maria2 wrote: post #55
xyzelement wrote: post #22

This triggered two thoughts for me. First, how much of a killer the cold is. We've moved on from "global warming" to "climate change" language but there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise (such as Latvia where I am from). Today, cold kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, while "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." Second, preparedn…

Very few places use electricity for heat. It’s super inefficient unless you use a heat pump, and residential heat pumps typically don’t work too far below freezing.

Most furnaces require electricity to run even if the heat isn’t generated by electricity.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#68

Post by starkd »

mysterydip wrote: post #35
xyzelement wrote: post #22

This triggered two thoughts for me. First, how much of a killer the cold is. We've moved on from "global warming" to "climate change" language but there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise (such as Latvia where I am from). Today, cold kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, while "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." Second, preparedn…

In addition to the above, learn how to start a fire in your fireplace. I had used up my last (easy start) duraflame log a few days ago. "No problem," I thought to myself, "I have this pile of firewood here to use." Fortunately I wasn't under a time crunch to get it started, because I failed on a few attempts, had to forage for some kindling, etc.

Old newspaper used to work well for kindling. But fewer people get their newspapers delivered in print. Used paper grocery bags could work.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#69

Post by rightbyte »

cloudify wrote: post #28
lumb63 wrote: post #26

I’m astounded by the family who didn’t feed their infant for 4 days because they couldn’t get formula. Isn’t breast feeding preferable to your child starving to death?

I’m likely astounded some people are not aware that not every women can breastfeed their children

I don't think one should be angry at people that are wrong. I mean, unless he asked and someone told him he might have gone around thinking they choose to let the baby starve etc.

Re: Thousands trapped on Pine Ridge burn clothes for warmth in wake of storm

#70

Post by kzrdude »

carbocation wrote: post #30
xyzelement wrote: post #22

This triggered two thoughts for me. First, how much of a killer the cold is. We've moved on from "global warming" to "climate change" language but there are a lot of places in the world that would be grateful for a few degree temperature rise (such as Latvia where I am from). Today, cold kills hundreds of thousands of people a year, while "heat deaths" are limited to geriatrics in the "first world." Second, preparedn…

Minimizing the fact that real humans die from overheating tarnishes an otherwise interesting comment.

We don't need that every comment is written with an universal viewpoint and covering all the bases. It's a conversation here, not an encyclopedia.
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