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The topologist’s world map (2020)

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Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#61

Post by jfengel »

joshuaissac wrote: post #53
klyrs wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it related how border maps can all be colored with only four colors? Actually, that's not generally true. Michigan, for example, violates the axioms behind the four color theorem -- if regions are allowed to have multiple disconnected pieces, a map could theoretically require arbitrarily many colors. For a more pathological example, consider that US embassies are considered "US soil" in an island of their host n…

Embassies are not considered to be foreign territory. The host country gives special privileges to the guest country in accordance with the Vienna Convention. But there can be an enclave of one country inside another (first-order enclave), as well as enclaves inside enclaves. Dahala Khagrabari was a third-order enclave, an enclave of India inside an enclave of Bangladesh inside an enclave of India in mainland Banglad…

Don't ruin my joke.

I used to date somebody who lived across from the Kenyan embassy in DC. The embassy had a few designated parking spaces, but only until 6:30 PM -- about the time I might arrive for a date.

I liked to think that I was parking in Kenyan territory. I was not, for numerous reasons, but it made me happy anyway. Just be out by 6:30 AM.

(It didn't become Kenya again until 9, but it was a travel lane during rush hour. That's why the spot was always open: the signs were so confusing that nobody wanted to park there first.)

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#62

Post by kneebonian »

gmadsen wrote: post #42
School-Cotton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly does having strong rivals on your borders make you any less likely to become a superpower? Is your argument that before China gets strong enough to be considered a superpower, their neighbors will invade them? Or is that they’ll feel insecure about their borders, and allocate resources to their military rather than economic development? Both arguments seem far-fetched. War with one’s neighbors is never gu…

Trade is a bigger issue than purely military. The US gets to dictate the terms of trade with Canada and Mexico, and they are pretty dependent on US trade. It's a large geopolitical advantage

> Trade is a bigger issue than purely military.

Hard disagree there. Trade has only taken priority because we've had such a long period of peace. Logistics fuel military power, but it turns out trade only happens when the more powerful party assents to it, if they do not then the weaker state may decide to inflict it's own trade relations on the weaker nation.

Many people in 1913 that trade was the most important factor in determining politics, that the global trade networks would prevent a truly large and terrible war, and that money was mightier than the musket.

It turns out that when the lights start to go out, when things start to go bad, and it becomes a matter of survival the power that matters is not trade but your ability to feed the pitiless war machine, and at that point your trade agreements mean squat if you don't have the ability to enforce those trade agreements with the barrel of gun.

It's not polite, it's not civilized, it's not fair, but just like the people raised in the Victorian era were given a rude awakening in the trenches of the Somme and the fields of Verdun about how circumstantial civilized behaviors are; so to will we be find our own base natures soon brought to the fore if we continue to pray to the false god of economic progress, and give offerings upon the altar of money in hopes of forestalling the looming crises we face.

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#63

Post by School-Cotton »

iso1631 wrote: post #58
School-Cotton wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antarctica isn’t shown for the same reason the bottom of the ocean or the surface of the moon aren’t shown: there are no countries there. Adding cells that don’t correspond to a country (like your proposed white circle) would make the map less accurate.

Then you get onto the definition of what a country is - there are many countries claiming land in Antarctica.

Indeed, but those claims don’t really reflect any on-the-ground reality, and the majority of countries don’t recognize them.

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#64

Post by mths »

wnkrshm wrote: post #3

This is beautiful, especially with the colors on the top right - though I have a nitpick that it is missing an entire continent (probably because it doesn't show up in a list of countries): Antarctica Edit: I now realize it's only supposed to show the graph national borders, though on a political world map, Antarctica is still shown. In a topological fashion, it could be added as a white circle around the entire map.

> In a topological fashion, it could be added as a white circle around the entire map.

You know the flat earthers would run wild with that map.

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#65

Post by standardUser »

Someone wrote: post #14
BenoitP wrote: post #13

I wonder how it would look like if we considered France's borders with the Netherland (at Saint Martin) and Brazil (at French Guiana).

It has both as exclaves: the France-Netherlands border in the group of islands at bottom left (nitpick: technically not a border with the Netherlands because St Maarten nowadays is an independent country in the kingdom of the Netherlands), just above Cuba, and the Belize exclave at the top of Brazil, bordering Surinam.

The Kingdom of the Netherlands is the parent nation state, despite St Maarten's designation as a "country". It's no more an independent state than Scotland (which is to say, not independent).

(also sorry to be pedantic)

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#66

Post by iso1631 »

School-Cotton wrote: post #63
iso1631 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you get onto the definition of what a country is - there are many countries claiming land in Antarctica.

Indeed, but those claims don’t really reflect any on-the-ground reality, and the majority of countries don’t recognize them.

There are many disputed territories shown - Palestine (especially the bit bordering Jordan, which bares no relation to the facts on the ground), or Taiwan which is shown when only a dozen countries recognise it. Northern Cyprus which is defacto a different state to Mainland Cyprus isn't shown, but the UK military bases are shown. Gibraltar is erroneously shown as part of the UK, but the Falklands aren't shown at all -- nor are many other island territories. Hong Kong and Macau aren't shown as separate to China.

It's difficult to know what the definition for inclusivity is.

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#67

Post by wnkrshm »

mths wrote: post #64
wnkrshm wrote: post #3

This is beautiful, especially with the colors on the top right - though I have a nitpick that it is missing an entire continent (probably because it doesn't show up in a list of countries): Antarctica Edit: I now realize it's only supposed to show the graph national borders, though on a political world map, Antarctica is still shown. In a topological fashion, it could be added as a white circle around the entire map.

> In a topological fashion, it could be added as a white circle around the entire map. You know the flat earthers would run wild with that map.

You're right, better to invert it and put antarctica in the middle.

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#68

Post by madcaptenor »

trynewideas wrote: post #36
hammock wrote: post #29

Is there a mathematical reason why, on the US map, only three types of lines are needed to generate this map- vertical, horizontal and one diagonal? Does that notion generalize to all border maps and if so why? Is it related how border maps can all be colored with only four colors?

> Is there a mathematical reason why No. Here's another topological map of the contiguous US that's all rectangles, arranged in a triangle: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/gy2jq6/the_topolog... I'm not sure how much I'd overthink this map, since it appears to have been created as a puzzle for children to help them understand the concept of topology: https://www.1001mathproblems.com/2015_11_01_archive.html >…

For more maps like this, there are a bunch of quizzes on Sporcle that ask you to label the nodes of a graph, where the nodes are states/provinces/countries and the edges are borders: https://www.sporcle.com/playlists/Alcas/graph-y-geography

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#69

Post by richardhod »

messe wrote: post #31
richardhod wrote: post #11

This gets Ireland so wrong it is unbelievable. Firstly the British isles are treated differently from all the other islands on the map, and it's hard to tell that there's even a blue line separating it from the rest of Europe. Secondly, Ireland doesn't even have a blue line, which implies it is connected by land to Britain And thirdly, Wales and Scotland should really be acknowledged, and at the same time you might s…

Well, if you're going to go down that route: > the British isles Many in Ireland[1] would consider that a rather loaded political term rather than neutral geographic one, and wouldn't use it to refer to Britain and Ireland. > Secondly, Ireland doesn't even have a blue line, which implies it is connected by land to Britain It's connected by land to the UK. Maybe there should be an additional blue line to denote the Ir…

You misunderstand the status of these countries, which are countries. They have their own football teams. The only reason that they are largely ruled from Westminster is due to the the military strength of England.

Re: The topologist’s world map (2020)

#70

Post by richardhod »

pimlottc wrote: post #16
richardhod wrote: post #11

This gets Ireland so wrong it is unbelievable. Firstly the British isles are treated differently from all the other islands on the map, and it's hard to tell that there's even a blue line separating it from the rest of Europe. Secondly, Ireland doesn't even have a blue line, which implies it is connected by land to Britain And thirdly, Wales and Scotland should really be acknowledged, and at the same time you might s…

Presumedly they are counting the land border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (as part of UK), but it’s confusing with the water boundary called out between UK and France.

Whereas I would call Northern Ireland an exclave colony, although in the current political status fittest part of the UK, much as Puerto Rico is part of the US, or the non-Russia Soviet States were part of the Soviet Union.
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