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'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

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Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#61

Post by Lost_BiomedE »

makmanalp wrote: post #59
Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the American disapproval rating of congress sits at 86% and an approval of 11% and dropping (Gallup polls).

I call bullshit on that poll. People are not morons. If disapproval rating at congress was so high according to a representative poll group, then why aren't people voting in people that they do approve of? House terms are short. Senate terms are long but I don't think this 86% number would have happened overnight.

Check the other poll numbers: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_...

They do not differ much, but i used Gallup as they are known to conduct good polls.

Here is info in the specific poll: http://www.gallup.com/poll/151628/Congress-Ends-2011-Record-...

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#62

Post by CWuestefeld »

phaus wrote: post #26
jbooth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I can understand not being brave enough to do this yourself. I'm not. But pooh-poohing those who do do it? "Proper channels"? Yeah, I'm sure they're getting right on it. How bad would it have to be before you stopped saying "Oh quit causing a disturbance"? I mean, this is already violating our most sacrosanct freedoms. Would I have to violate godwin's law to get you to agree with civil disobedience?

You seem to think that she is fighting the good fight on behalf of humanity. She is a professional writer who did this as a publicity stunt so she could write about the experience afterwards. Her biggest accomplishment is that she managed to make one of the scummiest organizations in the United States appear to be in the right. Way to go freedom fighter.

She is a professional writer who did this as a publicity stunt

I thought she identified herself as a doctor.

But in any case, you're simply building a strawman argument. You don't, and cannot, have any idea what her actual motivations were. Deluding yourself into believing you know what other people are thinking is not a good way to get to the bottom of any conflict.

(sorry, but you've hit one of my hot buttons)

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#63

Post by getsat »

makmanalp wrote: post #59
Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the American disapproval rating of congress sits at 86% and an approval of 11% and dropping (Gallup polls).

I call bullshit on that poll. People are not morons. If disapproval rating at congress was so high according to a representative poll group, then why aren't people voting in people that they do approve of? House terms are short. Senate terms are long but I don't think this 86% number would have happened overnight.

It's not your Congresscritter who's doing a bad job, it's everyone else's.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#64

Post by CWuestefeld »

makmanalp wrote: post #59
Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the American disapproval rating of congress sits at 86% and an approval of 11% and dropping (Gallup polls).

I call bullshit on that poll. People are not morons. If disapproval rating at congress was so high according to a representative poll group, then why aren't people voting in people that they do approve of? House terms are short. Senate terms are long but I don't think this 86% number would have happened overnight.

These days you're virtually guaranteed a disapproval of nearly 50% on the day you step into office.

(warning: oversimplification ahead, but I think it's a reasonable model to start with)

With the subtlety of the political chess match, the parties first choose polarized candidates in primaries. That's because it's generally the party hardcore who vote in primaries, not the moderates. Then in the general election, they play capture the centrist vote. When they're both at top form, the election margins are going to be razor thin.

Because the candidates were chosen in such a polarizing manner, they will largely be toxic to those on the other side of our imaginary single left-right dimension of political discourse.

(of course, this breaks down in gerrymandered districts where the political machine has ensured a safe seat)

EDIT: Now, factor in the typical model for marketing most high-profile candidates (at least this is how it seems to me). It seems that most people don't have the opportunity to vote for candidates they like anymore. Instead they're frightened by the bogeyman on the other side. "If you don't vote for the guy from our party, look at who's going to get the post instead -- and that will tilt the majority in Congress toward that other party of anti-Americans". The result, I submit, is that most people despise the guy from the other major party, but they don't like the one they did vote for, either. So it's not hard to push that disapproval rating even farther.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#65

Post by [deleted] »

phaus wrote: post #40
jbooth wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so we've catapulted the whole defending the erosion of our rights thing and now we're into personally insulting the person who told the story. Good move, considering the grounds of your argument and all. I'll repeat my question.. how bad would it have to be for you to agree with civil disobedience?

I never said that I disagree with civil disobedience. I just don't agree with this woman's perspective on exactly what transpired in this situation. I've worked for the federal government my entire adult life. If you want to convince them to get rid of the TSA, the side asking for the change has to appear blameless. The way bureaucrats make decisions is not logical. If you give them 999 examples of the TSA breaking t…

[deleted]

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#66

Post by illumin8 »

phaus wrote: post #12
peterwwillis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stupid things are also incredibly brave and necessary. If you have no other way of fighting what you know is wrong, you have to provoke a response.

She didn't accomplish anything besides making herself look like a lunatic. As I stated, I really hate the TSA and all of the abuses that have occurred, but this isn't going to help. The TSA has been guilty on numerous occasions of violating a person's constitutional rights. They have endangered the lives of some passengers and outright assaulted others. I really do hope that they are taken to task for the things that…

The sad thing is not that she didn't "go through the proper channels," the sad thing about this story is that the passengers in line behind her were more worried about missing their flights and started to yell at her to quit holding up the line.

I would love to see something like this happen, then every passenger after her refuse the scanner and recite the 4th amendment while being pat-down. Sadly, this will never happen, as 90% of those in line probably don't even know what the 4th amendment is, much less have the words memorized.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#67

Post by phaus »

Vivtek wrote: post #47
phaus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said that I disagree with civil disobedience. I just don't agree with this woman's perspective on exactly what transpired in this situation. I've worked for the federal government my entire adult life. If you want to convince them to get rid of the TSA, the side asking for the change has to appear blameless. The way bureaucrats make decisions is not logical. If you give them 999 examples of the TSA breaking t…

the side asking for the change has to appear blameless. Right there, you have your finger on the rot. First, why should there be sides? Second, why is it important to appear blameless instead of appearing right ?

You are correct; the federal government is rotten.

In any conflict, there are multiple sides, otherwise the conflict wouldn't exist. If the TSA had been designed with the intent of finding ways of protecting us while at the same time ensuring that the protective measures don't violate our constitutional rights, we wouldn't be having this conversation. If the TSA had been staffed with competent, compassionate human beings, there would be no conflict.

You and I may view things in terms or right or wrong, but bureaucrats don't. The government is rotten because we keep electing rotten people to rule over us. Isolated efforts to fight the TSA will do far less than an organized political movement.

People need to organize and take action as a collective. Just look at what happened to godaddy and you can begin to understand.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#68

Post by [deleted] »

phaus wrote: post #12
peterwwillis wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stupid things are also incredibly brave and necessary. If you have no other way of fighting what you know is wrong, you have to provoke a response.

She didn't accomplish anything besides making herself look like a lunatic. As I stated, I really hate the TSA and all of the abuses that have occurred, but this isn't going to help. The TSA has been guilty on numerous occasions of violating a person's constitutional rights. They have endangered the lives of some passengers and outright assaulted others. I really do hope that they are taken to task for the things that…

[deleted]

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#69

Post by rayiner »

quanticle wrote: post #3

Some basic Constitutional law would have saved this guy the trouble. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has already ruled that travelers do not have the right to refuse searches at an airport [1]. You might disagree with the decision, but if you're going to pull a stunt like this, you should at least be informed on the current state of jurisprudence regarding airport searches. [1] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/…

She wasn't refusing screening. She wanted to read the Constitution while doing it.

Re: 'TSA Arrests Me for Using the Fourth Amendment as a Weapon'

#70

Post by ianstormtaylor »

makmanalp wrote: post #59
Lost_BiomedE wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the American disapproval rating of congress sits at 86% and an approval of 11% and dropping (Gallup polls).

I call bullshit on that poll. People are not morons. If disapproval rating at congress was so high according to a representative poll group, then why aren't people voting in people that they do approve of? House terms are short. Senate terms are long but I don't think this 86% number would have happened overnight.

Because unfortunately answering a poll is quick and painless, whereas researching and voting properly require time and intelligence.
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