Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby • Hacker News Board

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#61

Post by j3 » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:09 PM UTC

enry_straker wrote: post #44

j3 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a week, or so, you'll find out how this is very different from an internal training program. We're going to make this very external , a learning experience for whoever wants to be involved.

Apologies if this came across negetively. My goal, at the time i started my company, was to build a really hard-core team. I am sure that is one of your goals too, aside from providing a really intensive training program for your participants. I would suggest focusing on good habits and good attitude to learning and problem-solving and having fun in the process. Don't allow them to burn out short-term.

Totally agree. I'm taking a lot of lessons from my time in Teach for America where they pushed us hard but still fostered the love for each other, the program, and of course our students.

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#62

Post by mattetti » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:10 PM UTC

araneae wrote: post #33

Damn, that's really awesome. It seems like a cool way to get into web programming from other fields since they don't require RoR or even a programming background. I might have considered it if my due date wasn't in May...

I'm almost sure we will run more sessions in the future.

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#63

Post by barry-cotter » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:11 PM UTC

sdoering wrote: post #6

Is it just me, or is it just the cultural difference (I am from germany, where we - god be blessed - have laws against these kind of hours)- but if I am expected to work 70h+/week in this thing, I belive, the same would be expected if anyone gets that job. Well done. slavery seems back at last.

Is it just me, or is it just the cultural difference (I am from germany, where we - god be blessed - have laws against these kind of hours)

IANAGerman but I lived there for a bit under a year. Don't the Bundeswehr(Army) and some of the big German companies offer a salary during the B.Sc.+M.Sc.in exchange for going to work for them for 10 years? Because this offer seems superior to me.

Actually a better comparision would be an Ausbildung(Apprenticeship). The company would have to really be exploiting them for it not to be better than an Ausbildung.

And by comparision with the apprenticeship system/vocational education system anywhere else, the German system is awesome. I have successfully convinced myself that this is an awesome opportunity and would apply if I was in a situation visa wise to do so.

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#64

Post by j3 » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:12 PM UTC

idiot900 wrote: post #39

"Not a programmer? Apply." How do you expect to turn someone into a decent programmer in five months when they are starting from scratch?

I've been teaching programming for eight years now, and I'd say "What we do isn't that hard." If we were writing 3D game engines, yes we'd need insane levels of math, theory, etc.

But writing web applications is mostly about following smart patterns, getting something done, done quickly, then improving the hotspots that need it. I can teach you to do that in five months, no problem.

Then it just takes a lifetime of practice to be, truly, good.

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#65

Post by rauljara » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:14 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #53

How much do you get paid to fill out the application? I love the idea that you're "edgy" and thinking outside the box, but honestly, have you really thought your application process through? As an ugly introverted nerd who still has trouble getting a date, but builds killer software apps and loves doing it, the last thing I ever want to do is spend multiple days in order to enter your beauty contest. So you'll end up…

I think you are making a lot of assumptions about what they are going to be using the info for, particularly the video section. They pretty explicitly state they want to hear your communication skills (those matter) / passion (most people would argue that matters too). You go from them telling you that to "So you'll end up choosing the prettiest people..."

You also have the "... who present the best and write the prettiest code regardless of how important or influential it is." Which is less crazy, because they do say that they want people who write clean code (who doesn't?). But they are also asking for your resume, so I don't think that saying "regardless of how important or influential it is" is fair, either.

It sounds like you've been through a lot of rejection in your life, and I really do sympathize, and understand what that can do to you. But you've gotten to the point where you're lashing out at these guys as though they've already rejected you, way before it's gotten to the stage where they could have even thought about rejecting you. It's not fair to them, and it's not fair to yourself. It comes off as incredibly aggressive, and it creates a really huge barrier before the conversation has even started.

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#66

Post by vaksel » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:15 PM UTC

j3 wrote: post #58

edw519 wrote: post #53

How much do you get paid to fill out the application? I love the idea that you're "edgy" and thinking outside the box, but honestly, have you really thought your application process through? As an ugly introverted nerd who still has trouble getting a date, but builds killer software apps and loves doing it, the last thing I ever want to do is spend multiple days in order to enter your beauty contest. So you'll end up…

We're engineers -- not pretty people. We don't care what your face looks like, but watching you explain who you are and what you're good at can give great insight into your personality. The application is more about whether you feel like a good fit for the team than it is your programming skills. It doesn't mean "do you look good", it doesn't mean "is your English great," and it doesn't mean "Does this look like I 'e…

No it doesn't...you honestly think anyone would record a video off the top of their head?

Those answers will be calculated to sound the way you want to hear. "Of course I enjoy working, if I can't get 90 hours of work in, I feel depressed that I'm not living up to my potential...taking days off is also completely unacceptable, since I don't want to let my coworkers down."

And getting a feel for a person from a video is not too smart either. In one case, you are friends with the person just talking. In another they are trying to essentially beg for a job talking into a camera, alone in a room.

And if you are getting 1000 applications, it's completely dishonest to require all those people to spend days creating their applications. You are not going to watch 8000 hours worth of video and read all those essays...so why do you require people to do busy work?

And if you are going get 1000 applications, you won't be picking non-programmers either(well maybe one). So why get all those people's hopes up and waste their time? There is no way I'd believe you'd pick someone with a biology degree over someone who already has the basic programming knowledge, where you don't have to explain what an IF statement is or how to create a variable.

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#67

Post by scarmig » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:16 PM UTC

j3 wrote: post #29

pitdesi wrote: post #23

This is pretty smart recruiting by livingsocial, certainly one way to bridge the talent shortfall, but i wonder what happens if someone wants to leave? Will be interesting to see how it all plays out Another similar program but without the lock-in is Code Academy ( http://codeacademy.org ) in Chicago. It is different than hungry academy in that you pay up front ($6k) but my understanding is that most of their student…

CodeAcademy is totally awesome. I'm the instructor for Hungry Academy and an advisor for Code Academy ( http://codeacademy.org/staff ). CA is an awesome program where you can get a great start and be independent. HA is a larger scale (20 weeks), you're paid during the program, then expected to join the engineering team full time. You're not guaranteed a job, but if you aren't ready for the team then I haven't done my…

Is Hungry Academy effectively an internship program that offers a guarantee of some dedicated training time instead of the intern being thrown to the wolves?

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#68

Post by nassosdim » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:19 PM UTC

j3 wrote: post #10

elomar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a great opportunity. Is it open to non-US citizens? :)

Yes! We can work on the visas for exceptional candidates.

What about the relocation expenses? Are you offering a relocation package?

As someone who has attempted a country switch a year ago I got myself into trouble when I had to arrange a place to stay - a proper place to stay, because the company back then could arrange me a room in a small apartment with 6 other people sharing a kitchen and due to issues that forced me to pay 3 nights in a hotel. Luckily I found a room to rent through a colleague, right on the first day in the office.

Point being, as much as I adore the idea of dedicating my whole life into learning software engineering and web development, get hands-on experience in a real company and do what I consider meaningful impact in the world, abstract things in the offer like "money", "relocation package" (if any) and apartment are going to keep me "trapped in Greece" for now.

Can you confirm or deny if my worries are legit?

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#69

Post by wallawe » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:22 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #53

How much do you get paid to fill out the application? I love the idea that you're "edgy" and thinking outside the box, but honestly, have you really thought your application process through? As an ugly introverted nerd who still has trouble getting a date, but builds killer software apps and loves doing it, the last thing I ever want to do is spend multiple days in order to enter your beauty contest. So you'll end up…

Did you watch the video? I highly doubt this is a "superficial beauty contest."

Re: Hungry Academy - get paid to learn Ruby

#70

Post by j3 » Wed, Dec 21, 2011, 4:22 PM UTC

Inufu wrote: post #32

j3 wrote: post #3

I'll do my best to answer questions as they pop-up here today, but please feel free to email me at (contact at jumpstartlab) dot com if you want to know more.

You mentioned that people will be payed during the training - what range are we talking about? About the mandatory 18 month work - how is pay worked out for that? Before training starts? I'm currently considering to apply, as I'm completely bored here with my CS and Economics bachelor. (Europe) I'd love to finally have some challenge :)

I don't have permission to talk specific numbers in public and it's not really my part of the program -- but expect the during program salary to be a reasonable living wage in our expensive city and the full post-academy salary to be at or above other beginning developer positions.